Options on Unit 4 Agresso
The options we’ve all been waiting for will finally be introduced this thursday the 24th, options on Unit 4. It’s a software company and part of the AMX index, and while it isn’t even that small it’s hard to imagine any demand for these options.
In the current market turmoil all market makers are busy trading the options with high turnover and lots of opportunity. Nobody is interested in quoting Unit 4 options every day. Without market makers the screens will be empty. Luckily there’s always All Options to rely on. When nobody is interested in quoting, Allard is sent to the kitchen again.
You won’t sign up for Unit 4, Brunel and Ten Cate with the idea of making any money there. It’s a dirty job, but All Options got to do it. Still not sure why.
There was little news which flashed out yesterday, S&P CEO got pushed out, very subtle but pretty obvious warning to Moody’s and Fitch’s CEO of what would their fate be if they downgraded US debt, there are lot of action behind scene .. nothing of the scale as above, but given All Options has hacked so much of staff and still quoting Unit 4 means that they have cut some behind the scene deal with the exchange, so don’t try using your head too much as to why All Options is quoting Unit 4, some insider got anything on Allard’s inner intrigues >?
CFTC vs Optiver:
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/f2214c70-ce60-11e0-99ec-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1W1Y8oFHN
Its getting nastier with the Fraude that hit Amstel Securities…also Neonet, Pareto Securities in the list of parties that were hit now…
Anmeldelsene av Christian Fredrik Aarnes fortsetter å strømme inn. Nå har også svenske Neonet og norske Pareto Securities anmeldt den unge aksjeramboen, melder Finansavisen.
Fra før har nederlandske Amstel og et australsk meglerhus levert anmeldelser på Aarnes. Men det kan være snakk om opptil 30-40 meglerhus som kan ha tapt penger på hans ville aksjehandel.
– Vi kommenterer ikke enkeltkundeforhold, men har ingen løpende inkassosaker over 340.000 kroner for øyeblikket, sier compliance-sjef Ole Wetlesen Borge i Pareto Securities til FA.
Torsdag ble siktelsen mot Aarnes utvidet og han ble varetektsfengslet for to uker.
Finansavisen avslørte forrige lørdag at den siktede 26-åringen skal ha brukt flere titalls utenlandske meglerhus, og at tapene kan komme opp i hundrevis av millioner kroner.
Sorry for the offtopic. Can anyone tell me: what is a decent starting salary for an algorithmic trader at one of the larger MMs?
what do you think. expenses with a little bit cash. obviously you’ve got no experience or track record. Large of small mm doesn’t matter that much.
Around 40k base?
An apple and an egg?
Large MM is an oxymoron – bank base salary for quants is about 2 to 3 times what MM’s pay.
Just take what they give you – it’s not like you have 3 jobs lined up anyway.
which mm is it ? optiver has base 60k eur, tibra 70k eur, banks associate get 70k gbp base, but to be honest base salary counts for shit, its the bonus potential, if you aint getting any, you would have to pack your bags sooner or later,
“An apple and an egg”. Hahaha. The guy that painted that crap got quite the bonus!
Less than 70k. Don’t expect an interesting bonus for at least 3 years. Yes, they will paint it as all upside. Low base plus massive bonus “potential” reduces their exposure to YOU. That’s the game. Net worse if you’re a developer, although maybe a higher base. Either way, you do the bending over, and say all the thank yous.
I think the question was base salary for a starter? Dont think any firm pays 70k for a trainee. Expensive coffee that is!
The offer I have on the table is 38k at All Options, and they said the bonus would more than make up for the rather low base salary. And they said something about free beverages, I guess that makes it more like 39k/year. Should I accept? I appreciate your input as I’m new to this industry!
depends on your chances with the other MMs. If you can get an offer at Optiver or IMC I’d say that’s preferable over All Options. On the other hand, free beverages also sounds pretty good. I guess there’s no such thing as a free lunch?
Is Liquid a good place to start as trainee? How much do they pay? Is it true they fire a lot of trainees after the first few months?
Wow 38k? Is that for real? Considering All Options probably won’t give any bonuses… ever…
Liquid is one of the best employers. Chrisss and Greggg run a tight ship.
Hi 10:03, thanks for your input. Why do you think they will never pay a bonus? In the interview they kept stressing that they are one of the leading Market Makers in the industry. So I just assumed that if they wouldn’t money, then probably no one would.
if they wouldn’t make money
Is it true that AO intends to set up an office in Switzerland?
@11:00 just read any Quote article on All Options… chances are they’re dead soon.
10:03 – “Leading” as in market share. Cut your margins to zero, and you get market share. Cut a faction further, and you get to trade with the other MMs, and sometimes with yourself too, just for laughs.
‘Don’t expect an interesting bonus for at least 3 years. Yes, they will paint it as all upside. Low base plus massive bonus “potential” reduces their exposure to YOU. That’s the game. Net worse if you’re a developer, although maybe a higher base. Either way, you do the bending over, and say all the thank yous.’
if you don’t get interesting bonus by second year, pls get ready to pack your bags, i am not kidding here .. if you are developer dont fuss about bonuses .. IT is not the most crucial part since it doesnt make the money directly .. even if you get some groundbreaking code, dont have high expectations since that was in past and in future, people making money off that code has to seriously see the value in paying you bonus .. what is often overlooked is that bonus is not backward looking but forward looking .. thats why its called ‘retention/incentive bonus’
‘I think the question was base salary for a starter? Dont think any firm pays 70k for a trainee. Expensive coffee that is!’
Of course it quite depends on what you are doing, whats your skill set, education blah blah .. but optiver has base 60k eur, tibra 70k eur, banks analyst have around 50k gbp base and the associates have 70k+ gbp base
‘the bonus would more than make up for the rather low base salary.’
The bonus carrot is well phenomenon in the industry thanks to media’s hype and the mythical stories floating around .. it’s a carrot more than reality as you shall soon find out ..
‘Should I accept?’
What are your other options son ?
‘Wow 38k? Is that for real?’
Optiver was 33k before they benchmarked it to banks/tibra ..
‘In the interview they kept stressing that they are one of the leading Market Makers in the industry. So I just assumed that if they wouldn’t money, then probably no one would.’
You believed what they said ? haven’t you heard about similarity of trading with poker .. you can bluff .. also making money is not always dependent on others, its not exactly zero sum, having said that, financial industry can extract only so much out of real world economy/gdp ..
‘Is it true that AO intends to set up an office in Switzerland?’
I thought AO was cutting staff and offices, they hacked 80% staff recently, they are hiring new kids already ??! also are they making lots of offers? Allard should be able to figure out who this kid is and hack already! but then again, i dont really believe this kid is for real, somebody is just playing mickey .. there is no way allard is hiring stupid kids again after firing 80% of staff ..
dude .. the only trade here is getting good tech on the cheap, so trader retards stay profitable. I think we all know this. Sadly most techies are losers and accept shitty pay. That’s the market inefficiency in this game.
Tibra’s edge was not its traders.
75k bid including bonus
you crossed the spread fella.
Agree that the salary in the first year should be with a forward view. Guaranteeing 20k on top of a 40k base if the trainee makes it to year two, is a free bet for the company and it sounds very attractive to the student. The bad ones are kicked out with nothing and the good ones will make more than 20k extra anyway, but the most important thing is that they cannot switch to a company with a better prospect for them personally. That is why Tibra are offering so much, after a year of looking around they will know it was a bad choice, but they are stuck. For just 20k.
What would traders look like on this chart?
http://work.failblog.org/2011/08/23/job-fails-workplace-subjectivity/workplace-subjectivity-chart-2/
‘dude .. the only trade here is getting good tech on the cheap, so trader retards stay profitable. I think we all know this. Sadly most techies are losers and accept shitty pay. That’s the market inefficiency in this game.
Tibra’s edge was not its traders.’
good idea .. why dont you hire some smart IT people and open a Tibra 2 or better still Getco 2 ..
’75k bid including bonus’
what are you trying to buy ?
‘Agree that the salary in the first year should be with a forward view. Guaranteeing 20k on top of a 40k base if the trainee makes it to year two, is a free bet for the company and it sounds very attractive to the student. The bad ones are kicked out with nothing and the good ones will make more than 20k extra anyway, but the most important thing is that they cannot switch to a company with a better prospect for them personally. That is why Tibra are offering so much, after a year of looking around they will know it was a bad choice, but they are stuck. For just 20k.’
with all due respect, you dont know what you are talking about ..
‘What would traders look like on this chart?’
thats the best bit, we dont have to give a shit abt it ..
HFT has become 1999 dot com. Easy to setup & everyone’s long. How did that work out? Remember the New Economy? Capital “N”, capital “E”.
“with all due respect, you dont know what you are talking about ..”
please tell me anyone that has moved on to anything decent after being a market maker for a year or two. almost impossible to get a job for those graduates that don’t ‘make it’.
mm and big bonuses are a pipe dream for ppl coming into the industry these days. just bend over…
Career progression to
retail bank teller
financial adviser in shopping mall
spreadsheet tech dude
math tutor
credit card sales person
A world of opportunity, post mm failure.
“good idea .. why dont you hire some smart IT people and open a Tibra 2 or better still Getco 2 ..”
Dozens of these exist, they just don’t go talking to the media, and promoting themselves all the time, unlike some. They just want the money, not the glamour. It’s probably a penis size thing. No website, no names, no self promotion, no “fully stocked fridges”. Talk about us and you can get fucked. And buy your own fucking lunch. We’re not your parents. Your choice. .. Cheap ex-commie tech dudes.
at 80k
congratulations, at 80k you filled against the entire ask side.
you now own all the grads.
new bbo: 40k /
expect a fine from the exchange.
if you’re lucky, they’ll bust it.
Hey kid did you also hear that all options is opening an office on Easter island? Think it has to do with the timezones, something about getting your trades in before everyone else…..
‘please tell me anyone that has moved on to anything decent after being a market maker for a year or two. almost impossible to get a job for those graduates that don’t ‘make it’. ‘
since million dollar bonuses are only awarded to CEOs, so obv you can’t move to that .. what happens to those who don’t start off as mm ?
‘A world of opportunity, post mm failure.’
Here’s another moron who hasn’t seen a career which can make millions outside mm.. when did it became rule that you need to be mm to make millions .. and all the mm are making millions ?!
‘Career progression to
retail bank teller
financial adviser in shopping mall
spreadsheet tech dude
math tutor
credit card sales person
A world of opportunity, post mm failure.’
If you really don’t know how to make money in real world, then your failure as mm or not is not surprising,
‘Dozens of these exist, they just don’t go talking to the media, and promoting themselves all the time, unlike some. They just want the money, not the glamour. It’s probably a penis size thing. No website, no names, no self promotion, no “fully stocked fridges”. Talk about us and you can get f*cked. And buy your own f*cking lunch. We’re not your parents. Your choice. .. Cheap ex-commie tech dudes.’
So if you don’t need to promote yourself, why are you showing off your big dick now? Talk about contradicting yourself in the same sentence,
”at 80k’
spoken like true market maker, instead of filling the bid at 75k and then offering 80k, you just offer 80k, yah you sound like a mm,
‘‘congratulations, at 80k you filled against the entire ask side.’
He was offering 80k with no size mentioned, how is that resulting in getting filled against the entire ask side?
you assume undisclosed size is small?
2:44 is correct
6:22 you are a moron
trading floor 101
“at a price” means you want to sell at that price
dumbasses. not making it as a mm just gets u a black mark with any recruiter or ib. and u miss out on any grad program till a year or two. just hire and fire and put that big bonuses carrot in front of grads…. they will keep falling for it
‘you assume undisclosed size is small?’
No I didn’t make any assumption, probably you were dreaming about it being gigantic, if you so wanna suck one, you should check out the manny over there in the corner ..
‘not making it as a mm just gets u a black mark with any recruiter or ib. and u miss out on any grad program till a year or two.’
It’s a black mark and its legit, you didn’t make it, whats wrong with an instance of failure .. if you are worried about possible black marks you should sit home and suck bitty .. if you don’t want to miss grad program, you should apply for it and not come to mm,
Has anyone heard anything about this new market maker company in London called Maven Trading? Aparently they started up a few months ago.
Maven trading = ex tibra and part ex optiver guys
Apparently they make markets in Toys, Souvenirs, Gifts, Jewelry and Decors, in an office in Manila.
http://www.philippinecompanies.com/companyprofile/37204/maven-trading
about 6 firms now, of ex tibra and part ex optiver guys. same strategies but with much lower running costs.
By “same strategies” do you mean hiring dewy eyed graduates, promising them massive upside, give them fuckall for around three years until they quit/get fired and are done training the next batch of 1/2 cent scalping monkeys?
its capitalism, if you dont like it, feel free to pack up your bags and leave pls ..
@ 7:21 pm 1 trader, 3 cheap C++ guys, orc & some capital.
@8:51 am
For what reason do you need Orc if u have 3 developers?
http://www.cityam.com/news-and-analysis/oil-price-trading-case-nears-end
@8:51am: Time to market. Build fast exchange connectors, but buy the front end & tested models.
@12:31pm: makes sense.
‘3 cheap C++ guys, orc’
isnt ORC in Java ?
‘For what reason do you need Orc if u have 3 developers?’
Here’s another genius .. why don’t you start Orc 2 then ? Or wait a second there are dozens of such firms existing selling their shitty software, but prefer not to show off their giant dicks ?
10:49 pm The shitty scripting language uses java-like interpreted syntax. The platform itself is not java. So .. don’t use the shitty scripting language unless you are a kiss ass born-to-lose douche in a bank.
Yes, you could build a better orc, but it would take time, and you’d have to find a trader smart enough to adapt. Good luck with that.
That being said, building a better orc would give you an edge on Tibra, amongst others. But don’t tell anyone, ok?
@10:50: Oh .. a sales guy from orc. chris? 🙂
Any experiences using FPGAs as exchange connectors?
@1:24 you sound like a frustrated mm who does not have a clue about the outside world.
Not everybody trades the way marketmakers do, it is not the banks game to play high-tech or waste time on scripts.
@ 8:50am Agreed. Just tear cash out of asses of customers and don’t get caught front running.
@ 7:21am Dude, put more than just the exchange connectors on the FPGA.. Edges in edges out. No OS required.
So who are the guys at Maven who are ex-optiver but not ex-tibra? Oh yeah, the guys who didnt tell anyone they went to Tibra after leaving Optiver. Naughty boys.
So, have Optiver settled with the CFTC yet? Any news…Anyone…?
@9:08 am:
Are the strategies not to complex for an fpga?
Or do u just load a table with theo prices?
@10:28am:
Nothing official yet. $19.3m is the figure set aside in their annual report but it would have been written before the settlement negotiations. It will be in the ballpark though. I’m checking the court records on a daily basis and will post as soon as anything happens.
@ 9:08 am: Why calc anything you could lookup? Size is the only constraint.
‘I’m checking the court records on a daily basis and will post as soon as anything happens.’
sorry what do you do for work and which company is employing you ?
‘So, have Optiver settled with the CFTC yet? Any news…Anyone…?’
Who cares, its well known they are going to settle sooner or later, 10-20 mil ballpark, new story pls,
‘Not everybody trades the way marketmakers do, it is not the banks game to play high-tech or waste time on scripts.’
Here’s another small dick from IB ..
‘Oh .. a sales guy from orc. chris? 🙂
Any experiences using FPGAs as exchange connectors?’
No, not a sales guy from orc, I don’t think they are checking this rubbish trader’s blog .. I liked henric, he was okay,
No experience using FGPA unfortunately..
‘Yes, you could build a better orc, but it would take time, and you’d have to find a trader smart enough to adapt.’
The number of times I have heard that ..
‘That being said, building a better orc would give you an edge on Tibra, amongst others. But don’t tell anyone, ok?’
No I think I would go tell everyone, I don’t like Tibra, it’s time they closed down shop..
dude stop hating on arbit. They are cleaning up right now with faster systems
‘dude stop hating on arbit.’
man come on .. read between lines kindly .. i was being sarcastic .. nothing against Tibra .. they are just one amongst dozens playing the game .. Hate the game, not the player ..
@8:40pm Dude, you are misinformed.
‘Dude, you are misinformed.’
Okay, you seem to be informed, pls enlighten the rest of us ..
”If the game is stealing software’
The Trading game is about stealing software ??!!
there is no trading at a market maker. there is only software. where do you think your bonuses have gone, “traders” ?
Are you a market maker? Do you work for one? have you ever worked for one? There is still plenty of “trading” for a market maker. Can I make a deal? I won’t write rubbish about stuff I don’t know, as long as you don’t either.
why niggaz be frontin for? Tibarizle is the shiznizzle. word to ya broker.
Depends on the market maker. The better ones no longer require many real traders at all. Calibrate, start, monitor. That’s all. Timberland might be the best example of this. More like a tech support job really.
‘The better ones no longer require many real traders at all. Calibrate, start, monitor. That’s all. Timberland might be the best example of this.’
How does Timberland engage broker market and OTC clients without bunch of human traders ?
‘there is no trading at a market maker. there is only software. where do you think your bonuses have gone, “traders” ?’
Yah sadly, the high-freq and tech race seem be over shadowing the capability of human traders .. the top management prefers to make it tech only, get rid of all the traders and keep the bonus with themselves .. tech doesn’t mind it, traders can’t demonstrate in obvious way how they are adding values .. most of the shop are really stealing execution alpha from market, so you might not need traders for those, AHL style systematic trading does good .. human traders are good more for macro/trend/greed/fear scenario .. but even these are being incorporated in the systematic funds to automate the decision making and remove the behavioural finance troughs that human traders does suffer from ..