DeGiro starts with US derivatives
DeGiro has a smart idea of timing. On US election day, the broker starts with trading in US futures and options. It kicks of with the famous S&P e-mini futures.
The e-minis are the most popular equity futures in the world. It trades virtually round the clock on CME’s Globex.
This is a big deal. For investors there is the home market, and there’s the USA. The introduction of e-mini’s carry more marketing value than prime-time TV commercials. Introduced are e-mini S&P (ES) and Nasdaq 100 (NQ) futures and options.
The fees are $0.50 per contract plus the fees for the exchange CME. The CME doesn’t come cheap for non members. It charges $1.17 for e-mini futures and $0.55 for options (see here). Also, DeGiro charges €5 each month you carry any position on the CME. Delayed prices – when you want free realtime prices your best bet are CFD shops like this one.
iDealing complains about DeGiro
I received a long pdf with complaints about DeGiro. It states DeGiro isn’t complying with European rules. It’s a long and technical story, referring to different European laws and regulations. And includes a link to my website, always appreciated. The letter aims at six points.
- DeGiro does not comply with its disclosure obligations under the Capital Requirements Regulation (CRR), commonly referred to as “Pillar III disclosures”
- DeGiro appears to be dealing on its own account, for which it has no license
- DeGiro has omitted to publish audited annual accounts for 2014
- DeGiro does not maintain sufficient regulatory capital
- Certain provisions are not in line with applicable rules
- DeGiro acts in breach of prohibition to obtain funds from the public
Here’s the source pdf.
The letter is send to AFM (Dutch securities watchdog), DNB (Dutch national bank) and ESMA (European Securities and Markets Authority). It doesn’t just complain about DeGiro. In addition, it attacks the institutions on failing to supervise DeGiro. Playing hardball.
The firm responsible for the letter is omitted. Luckily there are enough clues. Can’t elaborate too much on the details, but everything points at iDealing, the UK broker. iDealing denied they are behind the letter, but I have no reason to believe them.
iDealing is failing in The Netherlands
Earlier, I predicted iDealing would leave the country in three months. And not being able to attract more than 200 clients. Apparently, iDealing hasn’t given up yet. Their website is in a silly kind of Dutch. The average Nigerian prince sends be better mails than iDealing. This explains there’s still a job opening for a Dutch native speaker. No suprise here.
The broker specialises in the fine print. Some transactions are free, but only if you are happy with being forced to cross the spread and trade off-exchange. You have to pay €5 if you withdraw money your account. If you close your iDealing account, you have to pay €50. A true bargain.
Does iDealing have a case, against DeGiro?
Not really. I’ve checked with Gijs Nagel, chief of DeGiro. As always, he’s pretty cool about it. He maintains the firm operates within all applicable laws. Pillar 3 is disclosed here. The issue with attracting funds from the public has already been unsuccesfully tried by others. The dealing for it’s own account is aimed at lending shares from one customer to the other. Not much dealing for their own account in this case.
It looks like iDealing receives no reaction from the authorities, for a good reason. It looks impressive at first, but turns out to be a rather silly attempt.
* Other news
Timber Hill for sale
Interactive Brokers is the owner of market maker Timber Hill. It used to be way ahead of the pack, with a state of the art trading system. Alas, times have changed. The market making part of Interactive Brokers is for sale.
German tax authorities after ABN and IMC
Trading the cum/ex dividend deals used to be Big Bird’s game. Frank Vogel with GSLA did quite some size in this. Unfortunately, the Germans don’t like being ripped off. ABN Amro Clearing is under fire for helping with these kind of constructions.
According to the FD, the German tax authorities also claim €4.4 million from a former IMC director individually. That’s pretty harsh, when he (or she..) left the firm years ago.
Virtu earnings beat
Stock dropped heavily in preceding two months, but the results of Virtu were fairly okay. A surprise after the terrible results of other trading firms (KCG and Timber Hill). Particularly good news, as I own more Virtu shares than I should. Flow Traders coming up on Wednesday. I have low expectations.
is the timber hill sale a rumour or fact?
Fact. Also read the transcript of KCG’s conference call on Bloomberg.
They are discussing it.
@Anonymous Which conference call? I just read the latest, did not find anything.
Greetings,
Most grateful for the unselfish work put through onto this site. Huge ovations to you.
If I may humbly ask, what are the current open questions/caveats concerning dealings of any kind with De Giro? And more specifically, investing in regular stocks domestically?
why would kcg want to buy Timberhill?
timberhill said they are exploring options, speaking to potential buyers
Any news about IMC? What’s the P&L going to be for 2016?
Optiver looking to scoop Timber Hill ? It used to be a favourite role model for everyone at the helm of the company.
The Teza article in the FT was also interesting.They are not making money anymore in HFT
Tibra is up 100mln, maven 60 mln, imc 200+. Anyone aware of optiver’s results?
How about the legend that knows all the results?
Tibra 100 million? This does not sound right… they were making 20 million maximum few years ago… So either they came up with some new strategy (and that’s quite difficult, except if copied from somewhere else) or this is an exaggeration.
most of the figures on this website are made up
where does maven make most of its money?
Why would Optiver buy timberhill? That makes no sense at all
i don’t think it makes sense for anyone to buy Timberhill.
Who this former IMC director they claim the div strip from?
Why don’t you check the tibra annual figures if you believe they make 20 mln a year?
Last year they made 140 mln trading and kept 70 mln in profit.
This year will be comparable.
If you don’t have access (including widely available like last year’s report) to info on tibra, then just don’t post about them.
Sorry for posting about them.
http://www.amsterdamtrader.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Tibra2010.pdf
page 10: 20 million consolidated income in 2010.
2010 was a long time ago
Tibra made 70 mln after tax and bonuses and 140 mln before last year. That’s public information.
Current year they are probably making the same, so the guy who spoke about 100 mln is probably not far off.
Tibra is really not the most important company to discuss here, it seems there is still some angry people around that were fired by them over the last years.
Anyone knowledge of the current results of the trading companies? October and November must be good!
I heard Maven made 100 mil with the election result
Who is left at Tibra from the founders?
“ANONYMOUS
NOVEMBER 16, 2016 AT 6:42 AM
I heard Maven made 100 mil with the election result”
Sold
Danny Bhandari is still there? i thought he was the founder and still CEO?
Danny is still here and trading the asx quite successfully as he used to do for a couple of years, we might raise his trading size to 20 lot next year if he continues to develop as he does at the moment.
Hope I informed you sufficiently
I have no clue if Idealing’s claims about Degiro not following various rules are correct, but Degiro seems to have a ‘creative’ way of dealing with laws. Under Norwegian law, Norwegian shares must be directly registered in the shareholder’s name (i.e. not in the name of a nominee) if the shareholder is Norwegian. Consequently, Degiro can’t keep Norwegian shares on behalf of Norwegians as Degiro doesn’t offer direct registration. Degiro solved this by creating ‘Degiro Contracts’ (information here: https://www.degiro.co.no/data/pdf/no/YII_DEGIRO_kontrakter.pdf), special derivative instruments which are described as ‘fully paid CFDs’ (fullt betalt CFDer). Norwegians who buy shares of Norwegian companies through Degiro supposedly get ‘Degiro Contracts’ whereas everyone else gets real shares. I assume that this creates extra counterparty risk, but I don’t know how big this risk is. The counterparty for the contract seems to be ‘DEGIRO’, but I don’t know whether ‘DEGIRO’ refers to Degiro B.V. or to Stichting Degiro, which affects the counterparty risk.
https://insideparadeplatz.ch/2016/12/30/jan-schoch-und-die-leonteq-partybanker/
http://ibkb.interactivebrokers.com/node/201