WEBB buys Caerus
It’s has been confirmed WEBB Traders takes over Caerus. They have a lot in common. They are both start ups launched after the demise of Van der Moolen. WEBB is mainly active on the cash market, and Caerus is market maker in the derivative business.
No surprise
It doesn’t really come a a surprise. In the last couple of months we’ve seen brokers merge, exchanges and now traders are joining forces. Last year’s revenues have been disappointing all over the place, and at the same time running a trading operation isn’t getting any cheaper. Transactions costs are under pressure, but fast co-located connections to a dozen exchanges are pricey.
Merger makes sense
“Our operations are very complementary, and there’s a lot of synergy”, as confirmed by a stakeholder. Four years ago I couldn’t understand the rationale of the merger between two option market makers (All Options / Saen). This one makes sense. Lot of fixed costs to share and not having to fire half of the company. Caerus will leave their office at Beursplein 5 to move in with WEBB. Together the new combination will have a headcount of 30.
A gun shot wedding
On the other hand, let’s be fair : it’s also a shot gun wedding. When making millions, nobody would even consider selling the firm – no matter how much synergy to be achieved.
The road to consolidation isn’t over yet in the financial markets. Economies of scale is required to survive. Last year several tiny market makers decided to call it quits. Remains to be seen WEBB/Caerus can compete with the larger fish.
On the road to global domination !
Who is Webb ?
I thought Caerus fired some 25% staff last year,
Now they are taking over, when will be the next round of kicking out people.
anybody knows what’s WEBB’s trading approach? what signals do they use and how much do they rely on latency?
@ 5:38 Only two traders were fired as far as I know.
Tibra and Optiver to merge next
how is Tibra doing in these days?
tibra is also ran, last remains of the super bubble
‘Tibra and Optiver to merge next’
Optiver wins the lawsuit and tibra agrees to settle by selling themselves to optiver
what has tibra got that optiver ain’t got?
‘On the road to global domination !’
5 traders are saving cost by merging with other 5 traders, global domination is next
Who is Webb ?
http://www.webbtraders.nl/
‘it’s also a shot gun wedding’
how come caerus is selling themselves to webb, is webb cash rich or is this just a merger of equals?
‘Now they are taking over, when will be the next round of kicking out people’
there is no round of kicking out, its a difficult business and people are the biggest cost, whenever you can save the cost, nothing personal
‘anybody knows what’s WEBB’s trading approach? what signals do they use and how much do they rely on latency?’
cash equity, etf, spreads, auctions
they are way too old school for signals
what’s the latency on lifting offers on your click station?
‘Only two traders were fired as far as I know.’
how come they got fired, lost their modjo or didn’t want to put into parternship or clash of thoughts or tired already?
Webb is on rts and tbrricks
Caerus is/was orcies i think i heard
yes, cerus was looking for orc java developer, isn’t orc good for options while rts/tbricks good for delta one, where is the synergy?
you are speaking about platforms. i am just using Deltix and thinking to change to tbricks but like ypu say, are for delta one not delta 0.Wich the best strategy to do arbitrage or i have to develop something in fpga and binay code
rts, orc, tickts, tbricks and prop system
‘i am just using Deltix’
what is Deltix and why do you use it?
‘are for delta one not delta 0’
what is delta 0? Arbitrage?
I am using it becasue gave ne some demo and you can program it with c# and the code of matlab. It is good system for prediction and for pairs like cointegration but not for pure arbitrage becasue the latency is not the best, then i would like to know if the only way to do latency arbitrage is doing your own fix engine in high computing way. I am really interested in latency arbitrage and if somebody can give me some tip or reference can be fantastic. It is possible the arbitrage in forex??
many thanks
I hope your code contains less typos and is more understandable than your English. Otherwise you’ll have a hard time making money with your high computing.
“something in fpga and binay code”
definitely on your way to world domination
gamma scalping straddles
‘It is possible the arbitrage in forex??’
of course, what do you think trading firms and banks do in FX?
‘I hope your code contains less typos and is more understandable than your English. Otherwise you’ll have a hard time making money with your high computing.’
it would have been nice to have your dick as big as your mouth, do you take dump at other people to make up for your inferiority?
‘definitely on your way to world domination’
lol, throw in some more jargon, you would already be hitting it out of park
Seems like Van der Moolen is back, only without RDD and other expensive staff !
…erm, people like Marco and Thijs *were* the expensive staff!
‘it would have been nice to have your dick as big as your mouth, do you take dump at other people to make up for your inferiority?’
It would have been nice if people would read their post before pressing enter. Is it really that difficult to post in proper English? You’re way more likely to get any useful response if people can understand what you’re writing. That’s all I’m saying.
And what’s the matter with these constant dick comments here? What’s the source of this phallic obsession?
‘people like Marco and Thijs *were* the expensive staff!’
how come these 2 clowns got to buy caerus, was caerus that desperate?
‘It would have been nice if people would read their post before pressing enter’
get over it already?
Is it really that difficult to post in proper English?
no, its just that most people couldn’t give a shit about ‘proper’ grammar
‘You’re way more likely to get any useful response if people can understand what you’re writing’
how did you reach that conclusion that people are not able to read through some stupid english mistakes?
‘That’s all I’m saying.’
like above, its just that most people couldn’t give a shit about what you are saying
‘And what’s the matter with these constant dick comments here?’
Small dick size = inferiority complex = dumping on others, did you fucking read the bloody post or that got some english mistakes too? – ‘it would have been nice to have your dick as big as your mouth, do you take dump at other people to make up for your inferiority?’
What’s the source of this phallic obsession?
aren’t guys constantly obsessed about their dick size and getting laid?
one person said to me that it is impossible to do arbitrage in forex like triangular arbitrage. What do you think it is the best way to do it? The main thing is to use a prime broker like ABN, but it is necessary to open another one with other prime broker with differents liquidity providers to do it? you can do arbitrage with ETF, futures and options or only with differents pairs? many thanks.
forex arbitrage is when you are a big bank and you rob your clients by 10 pips up to a big figure. money for nothing, chicks for free.
‘when you are a big bank and you rob your clients by 10 pips up to a big figure’
It’s trading and business, if the client is stupid, why wouldn’t the dealer take his/her money? Every business wants to do that
‘money for nothing’
You can say the same thing for brokers too. The issue is that there is great big infrastructure in running a trading book, you can’t just start a charity shop for clients when you have all the sales, mo, operations to feed
‘chicks for free’
how about you get a bit real and stop glamorizing it so much
‘one person said to me that it is impossible to do arbitrage in forex like triangular arbitrage’
Latency Arb can be few and far between, so you can try stat arb
‘but it is necessary to open another one with other prime broker with differents liquidity providers to do it’
yes, the more counterparties who can trade with you, the better, that’s why dealers have gone electronic with BARX, Autobahn etc to reach out to as many market takers
‘you can do arbitrage with ETF, futures and options or only with differents pairs’
yes?
“how about you get a bit real and stop glamorizing it so much”
how about you brush up on your knowledge of ’80s music instead of projecting your own fantasies!
what’s 80s music got to do with the projected glamour on a bank’s trading book?
That’s the problem with all those 22-year olds on trading desks. They take life too seriously and have never heard of the Dire Straits.
i understand you are having mid-life crisis and your arse being replaced by 22 year olds doesn’t help, listen to a bit more of dire straits, it’ll help the pain.
I’m pretty sure the same was said about you when you were 22 and the older guys made fun of you for not knowing Sinatra or Bing Crosby.
TOM started index option on AEX. Nice
https://twitter.com/TheOrderMachine
It took that long?
Off topic: now today eu countries decided the financial transaction Tax will be introduced what does this mean for derivatives? I read somewhere that derivatives trading can collapse with 90%. what you guys think…end of options?
Depends on how it will be taxed.
if the frictional cost of tax is high enough, the reduction in volumes would lead to higher bid-offer spread, collapse of small mm, further widening and frictionals cost, negative spiral for options punting, they are hard enough to gamble on, but well casinos do still exist even with terrible house advantage, so maybe too early to write options gambling
any guess on the impact of such a tobin tax on high-frequency prop trading companies in the case of futures, options, and equities? It seems the idea is to differentiate between derivatives and non-derivatives.
Well it will not be good.
Holland was smart enough to not underwrite this, so there should be no impact for dutch market makers
‘Holland was smart enough to not underwrite this, so there should be no impact for dutch market makers’
1] Does that mean no financial tax on trades done from Netherlands ? or does it mean no tax on trades done on AEX/ NL products ?
2] The UK has stamp duty on its shares trading on the LSE for a long time now. Did not really reduce trading volumes did it ?
Question 1: This is the big unknown yet.
Probably: no tax on trades done on AEX/NL products. But Eurex for example will be taxed, also for Dutch marketmakers.
But who knows…maybe eurex moves completely to Switzerland.
Question 2: the reason it didn’t have much effect is because almost no one has to pay the tax. If all those people that are exempt wouldn’t be exempt, then the volumes would drop dramatically.
Going the English way would really fit the level of intelligence of lawmakers at the EU though. Implementing a tax to punish the banks, but the only people that pay are retail investors…
Anyway, it would sound logical to exempt prop trading firms, since they did not cause the crisis and are not engaging in speculations which could potentially impact the economy. Prop trading firms will ever be bailed out with taxpayer money, so there is no point for them to pay a tax and give back to society.
The big banks, first of all Goldman Sachs, are doing this and should pay a transaction tax.
Ah, I think you mean realestate punters who lost, then refused to settle up, then blamed banks for lending to them in the first place. Whining degenerates & sore losers.
the problem were subprime mortages, higly illiquid and opaque products engineered by banks which gave the opportunity to everybody to own a house, regardless of the ability to pay back the debt
Expected EU FTT proposal –
– Scope: equities (0.1) + derivatives (0.01)
– FTT zone: BE, DE, EE, GR, ES, FR, IT, PT, SI, SK, AT
– FTT Zone financial institution’s branches world wide will be subject to FTT
– non-FTT zone financial institutions will be taxed transacting with with parties in the FTT zone,
– no intermediary exemption (e.g. market-makers in scope)
it this is true IMC can shut down their European ETF and Options market making divisions
>But who knows…maybe eurex moves completely to Switzerland.
Ha ha, good thought. Deutsche Boerse moved to Eschborn already a couple of years ago to avoid the Frankfurt city tax. However, I doubt a move to Switzerland is in the books.
BTW, this is my first comment. Lots of respect and thanks to the blogger and owner of this site. This is a nice site which gives great insights, especially on the Dutch market. Very well done and keep it coming.
‘it this is true IMC can shut down their European ETF and Options market making divisions’
ETF they’ll shut down anyway, as it is only losing money. For Options it would be a pity.
All American firms have laid off people. Only the European and Asian firms have not done so.
Is this because of diversification ? Did IMC/optiver/Tibra make breakeven money in 2012 ?
breakeven?? that sounds like a waste of energy and time.
Some prop shops were fine doing stat arb on liquid books, but find they can’t cover the increasing fixed costs in low vol-low volume environments. Firms like imc/optiver are no one-trick pony’s.
‘Did not really reduce trading volumes did it ?’
That’s because market makers and professionals are exempt from it, god knows why.
‘the problem were subprime mortages, higly illiquid and opaque products engineered by banks which gave the opportunity to everybody to own a house, regardless of the ability to pay back the debt’
never mind, you missed the entire set of underlying forces behind the Great Financial Crisis
‘no intermediary exemption (e.g. market-makers in scope)’
finally
‘For Options it would be a pity’
why?
‘breakeven?? that sounds like a waste of energy and time.’
if your ROE is high enough for breakeven calculation, it ain’t waste of nothing
Persistent rumours that Tibra is down $50 million
in the last year. Redundancies are accelerating, and
things have reached that tipping point where the best
people are fleeing while the dregs are hanging on.
The debacle of a case against Optiver continues to entertain.
With more and more evidence pointing to the fact that people
not only stole Optiver code but benefited hugely from the
exercise, things are beginning to look grim. It appears Tibra
is attempting to cut the throat of one of the developers
involved in an attempt to limit their liability in case of
an adverse outcome.
The management abilities of the founders who still
cling to upper management positions are of course hilarious.
Those original shareholders who left or were pushed early
are desperate to get their money out before it all goes down
the plug hole: desperate enough to sue the Tibra board for
mismanagement. When company founders need to be escorted
of the premises you know things are getting interesting!
All in all, Tibra is continuing to be an entertaining, if
not at all profitable, place to work! I look forward to many
more long days!
xxx FTDi.
strange, they recently hiring some top guns in the London office, are you sure things are really so bad at Tibra? Any VIP who left?
‘who the fuck are these top guns and where are they from?’
http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20121108-713791.html
To: FTD Outsider
Subject: ASIC Subscription
Dear FTD Outsider,
Please call one of the myraid ASIC information providers and ask to be subscribed to the document feed for Tibra Capital. When Tibra Capital lodges a document with ASIC you will be notified.
If you had done so you will know that on the 15th October Tibra Capital lodged their financial report for the 2011/2012 financial year. During that year they registered a profit (albeit a small one) of $4.678m AUD. That figure includes a writedown on the value of intellectual property to the tune of $4.589m AUD, so the true result is closer to $9m AUD.
In section 4 of that report – “Other items” – it states “No matters or circumstances have arisen since the end of the financial year and up to the date of this report which significantly affected or may significantly affect the operations of the Group”.
As at June 30, the company had $133m AUD in total equity and was turning a net profit. I would consider an alleged $50m AUD loss between then and 15th October as having a “significant effect”.
Staff numbers were relatively unchanged at 241.
The other two documents lodged by Tibra Capital relate to a share Buy-Back undertaken on the 29th October wherein the company bought back 1.85m shares. It must be said that companies tend to buy back their own shares when they are in a strong financial position and have surplus cash. The only noteworthy part of that document is that Danny Bhandari sold roughly 10% of his holding. He now has 7.01m shares of a total 59.4m on issue (equal to 11.8% of the company).
Judging from the above I would say that it is vastly improbable that “Tibra is down $50 million in the last year”.
It is embarrassing that an actual outsider has better information than someone that claims to be an insider.
“desperate enough to sue the Tibra board for mismanagement”
Which court is this in? I can’t find it on the Commonwealth Courts Portal.
Staff numbers relatively unchanged at 241
About 50 guys have resigned from the EU office voluntarily. Some are at a new outfit, others are just on gardening leave .
About a similar number have been newly employed in the US office where business seems to be doing well. Smart move by the firm.
Tbricks is the new good thing for options market making.
‘who the fuck are these top guns and where are they from?’
it was actually – ‘who are these top guns and where are they from?’
why are you adding your own fucking curse words in other people’s quotes?
@11.01 Without claiming any extra knowledge: I would assume that all the profit (and a bit more) would have been made in the latter half of 2011. That’s when volumes and volatility were high and all market makers were doing well.
If Tibra managed to make only 9 mln (before write-down) between July 2011 and June 2012 I think it’s a fair assumption they have been running at a loss in the first half of 2012.
There is therefore no reason to assume that the loss of 50 mln would have occured between June and October, as you do. More likely they have been bleeding consistently during the year, with the bleeding speeding up towards the end (even lower volumes and volatilities).
I tend to disagree with your comment about companies buying back shares only in good times. Have you never followed the stock market? Ever heard of KPN?
‘http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20121108-713791.html’
anybody got a full transcript for this?
how are these two old geezers going to make millions for Tibra and why did they leave Getco
uk.linkedin.com/in/stephenkovalcik/
uk.linkedin.com/pub/neil-groves/0/8bb/490/
‘That figure includes a writedown on the value of intellectual property to the tune of $4.589m AUD’
is that IP the stolen code form Optiver which has finally run out its natural life
‘I would consider an alleged $50m AUD loss between then and 15th October as having a “significant effect”’
you are taking the rumors off this blog far too seriously
‘It must be said that companies tend to buy back their own shares when they are in a strong financial position and have surplus cash.’
Enron and Lehman brought back its shares, sometimes management does that to support pubilc share price to give an impression of strong position. Being a private company, buying shares does of course sound strong financial position
‘It is embarrassing that an actual outsider has better information than someone that claims to be an insider.’
he ain’t got any better information, its just stupid rumour mongering.
‘Tbricks is the new good thing for options market making’
How did you reach that conclusion?
‘If Tibra managed to make only 9 mln (before write-down) between July 2011 and June 2012 I think it’s a fair assumption they have been running at a loss in the first half of 2012.’
Nice comeback
‘If Tibra managed to make only 9 mln (before write-down) between July 2011 and June 2012 I think it’s a fair assumption they have been running at a loss in the first half of 2012.’
Does the Australia report include revenue from EU and USA.
“The debacle of a case against Optiver continues to entertain.
With more and more evidence pointing to the fact that people
not only stole Optiver code but benefited hugely from the
exercise, things are beginning to look grim. It appears Tibra
is attempting to cut the throat of one of the developers
involved in an attempt to limit their liability in case of
an adverse outcome.”
Way too funny. Please tell us more, FTD Insider. Particularly about this “more and more evidence”.
I’m an FTD Insider as well, and I’ve got no idea what you’re saying when you talk about “cutting the throat” of one of the developers. I assume you are referring to Muirhead or Tydeman but don’t know what it is in reference to. Please tell us more, oh great one.
Forget KPN.
VDM bought back shares months before bankruptcy.
I rest my case.
you don’t have to rest anything you dumb ass, there is a bloody difference between a public company supporting its stock price on an exchange vs a private company using cash stock pile to affect ownership percentage
‘I’m an FTD Insider as well, and I’ve got no idea what you’re saying when you talk about “cutting the throat” of one of the developers’
if you ain’t got an idea, then keep your mouth shut and your ears open to listen hard
‘I assume you are referring to Muirhead or Tydeman’
what about these two, did they join with danny from optiver to start tibra?
“what about these two, did they join with danny from optiver to start tibra?”
You call yourself an insider, but don’t know who these two are?
Does anyone know of a web-site in Netherlands where one can pay and receive company records ?
In the UK you can use ukdata.com. Anything similar in Netherlands ?
@1.52 I don’t see that commenter making any claim that he’s an insider.
@ 2.15 The website of the chamber of commerce (kamer van koophandel) http://www.kvk.nl
“@1.52 I don’t see that commenter making any claim that he’s an insider.”
Yes, but he has that same dickhead tone.
“you don’t have to rest anything you dumb ass, there is a bloody difference between a public company supporting its stock price on an exchange vs a private company using cash stock pile to affect ownership percentage”
unless someone cashed out
@1:52am, I think it was rhetorical question. He knows full well that TM and JT did not come not from Optiver with Danny – so the mystery developer is……………………
Answers on a postcard
andrew king
is there any truth to the rumour that Bhandari is returning to rescue Tibra from its current mess?
Tim Berry is the man…
When the WSJ’s calling you “renowned trader Danny Bhandari”, probably time to jack up your appearance fee, write a book, & setup a fund.
Why hang around Bondi Junction with a gaggle of smelly nerds?
Title of the book: ‘Copy-Paste’
i have heard that tibra have offered big money to recruit Brenton Fishman from Optiver
Is he their market data guy ?
He’s their janitor. He’s really good at cleaning up mess. That’s why Tibra wants him.
“any details on this Brenton guy?”
Nothing on LinkedIn. Nothing on Facebook. Nothing on Google generally.
Is he a ghost?
haha, you guys, you all crack me up, haha
Big step up from market data guy to janitor. Folding money, and some pull with the ladies. Good times.
he has slept with 10,000 ladies, yes, some pull right there
@8:10 Tibra doesn’t realign incentives, they just promise too… unless perhaps it’s the incentive to not get fired
haha, welcome to the financial industry, its called bonus ‘carrot’ for a reason, to make us all work like donkeys, stick up the arse and rewards only to watch at arm’s length
@4.50 “Tim Berry is the man”
I heard Berry was moving to Bouvet Island to run the company from there?
no, he is just going take it easy on the beach there
any chance that Rob Kalmaris could come in as a hired gun CEO at Tibra, or is there too much bad blood there from the Optiver days?
Rob would never work at Tibra.
All credit to him for building what is without a doubt the best option trading system in the world.
perhaps Tibra may dangle a nice carrot in front of Paul Hilgers to entice him to jump ship. anyone got a market on the next Tibra CEO – expressed in deltas?
delta 25 bid on Hilgers
35/40 on rob kalmaris
‘All credit to him for building what is without a doubt the best option trading system in the world.’
no, the best options trading system in the world belongs to IMC, and it was built by another Rob
5 bid on Randal
Even 5 looks like a big sell.
Would never happen given the history of the two firms.
at 20 on nick begg
‘Rob would never work at Tibra.’
Rob should kill himself before even thinking of working for Tibra
isn’t there somebody from tibra board who can give their clueless opinion to the above moronic mix
‘no, the best options trading system in the world belongs to IMC, and it was built by another Rob’
who is this Rob at IMC?
What is the current status of the beloved former CEO of optiver Randal Meijer? is he flogging gold to the public at rip off rates like his protege
anyone got a delta on Chris Dowson?
@10:35
Batman and Rob
any chance of a return from Jan Dobber?
any chance of a return from vloerhandel?
any word on chris dowson. is he head of trading in asia pacific ?
Yeah, he has built a new tool that will hammer all competitors in the Kospi
Same tool Eclipse had? 😉
hes probably trying to hammer his tool in different places than the kospi i guess, probably somewhere on a boat
Randal Meijer’s not selling gold, rather he’s spending on startups:
Who is SellanApp?
Aernoud Dekker (Amsterdam, NL), Milan van den Bovenkamp (Amsterdam, NL), Dylan Evans (Amsterdam, NL), Larissa Wiens (Amsterdam, NL) Randal Meijer (Laren, NL), Jakko Kolkert (Amsterdam, NL), Wouter Kneepkens (Utrecht, NL), Paul Citroen (The Hague, NL), Roy Boverhof (The Hague, NL), Siewert van Otterloo (Utrecht, NL), Paul Hamelinck (Eindhoven, NL).
Our HQ is in Amsterdam.
Check out our team page.
from sources. dowson has been kept under wraps at australia for strategic reasons.
what strategic reasons?
Hoe loopt ‘t bij hen met posities in SNS aandelen en/of opties? De Ondernemingskamer zal vermoedelijk op z’n vroegst pas over 2 jaar kunnen oordelen welke prijs betaald moet worden voor de onteigende stukken (als het al niet 0 is). Ondertussen kun je deep ITMs niet uitoefenen en sowieso geen stukken leveren.
En wie is de liquidity provider in SNS opties? Laat me gokken: All Options en Allard verdient er 50 miljoen mee. Wat een poppenkast.
Why is this site not opening a TIBRA or OPTIVER forum ? then all this gays can talk about their favorite firm !
from sources. IMC’s recruiters are the hottest
Business as usual for eclipse as they post this on efinancial
http://jobs.efinancialcareers.hk/job-4000000001147418.htm
How is it with them with SNS positions in shares and / or options? The Enterprise is expected at the earliest until about two years to decide what price to be paid for the expropriated pieces (if not 0). Meanwhile, you can not exercise and deep iTMS anyway no documents delivered.And who is the liquidity provider in SNS options? Let me gambling: All Options and Allard earns 50 million note. What a charade.
‘then all this gays can talk about their favorite firm !’
you can’t talk about it here?
‘from sources. IMC’s recruiters are the hottest’
your source has hadn’t had sex in a while, ask him to get laid and then re-visit this topic
‘Business as usual for eclipse as they post this on efinancial’
have they been actually interviewing for this position, until somebody comes forward, pls keep your mouth shut
‘ have they been actually interviewing for this position, until somebody comes forward, pls keep your mouth shut’
+1
For all you know, the job posting might just be a decoy to fool the market.
it’s clearly working on that moron, haha
February 2nd, 2013 at 2:47 pm:
Fool the marke from what? Aren’t they out of the positions already? Brokers are saying business as usual at Eclipse as well.
‘Fool the marke from what?’
haha, you are that naive? Financial market participants can only survive if there is appearance of healthy balance sheet, otherwise nobody would do business with Eclipse, now they very well might be viable, but the 120% appearance of it is much more important, you already forgot the lessons from ’08?
‘Aren’t they out of the positions already?’
Yes of course, but Eclipse has to make every effort in convincing the market they survived and are in business as normal, the inside step is to shore up the capital as it is dangerous to operate with bare min capital and risk being shut down on one more mistake
‘Brokers are saying business as usual at Eclipse as well.’
Brokers don’t know their ass from their mouth, blood sucking parasite leeches
For a market maker trading listed products there is really only one party that needs to think they’re healthy, and that’s the clearing. And for them there’s no keeping up appearances, since they know exactly how Eclipse is doing. The lessons from ’08 apply more to banks.
how about for investors, partners, employees, broker counterparties, the appearance of healthy company ain’t important at all i assume?
the lessons apply to all financial market participants as most parties in the business are the rats on a ship who would jump off at first sign of trouble and thus acerbate the crisis for the troubled enterprise
Is this still the Caerus Channel ??
“how about for investors, partners, employees, broker counterparties, the appearance of healthy company ain’t important at all i assume?”
There are no outside investors, and the partners and employees are also internal parties that all know quite well what the situation is like. These people are not fooled by a job ad online.
For brokers there’s little risk, all they can miss out on is some fees that don’t get paid in case of bankruptcy. They won’t be too worried about that. Counterparty in trading is the clearing, so no problems there either.
Again, this is a small market maker, not a TBTF bank. One that doesn’t do much OTC (if at all). If you still think that a market maker and a big bank are the same, then you haven’t learned much from the financial crisis.
‘There are no outside investors’
They are lining up potential outside investors aren’t they?
‘the partners and employees are also internal parties that all know quite well what the situation is like’
The partners might be a different story, but what do you think average employee knows about what partners are upto in the meeting room?
‘These people are not fooled by a job ad online.’
The management is still hoping they might be, and they very well might be given their intelligence level
‘For brokers there’s little risk’
There is no risk, but wasted energy in getting involved with a dead mm
‘If you still think that a market maker and a big bank are the same, then you haven’t learned much from the financial crisis.’
you are as buttheaded as you hard headed, which part of ‘the lessons apply to all financial market participants as most parties in the business are the rats on a ship who would jump off at first sign of trouble’ says that two time mm is same as tbtf bank. it implies the lessons of confidence game applies to all financial markets, giving healthy importance is paramount, you can argue on the levels of importance based on firm’s nature of business, but the lesson stands, looking strong is no fucking brainer
““desperate enough to sue the Tibra board for mismanagement”
Which court is this in? I can’t find it on the Commonwealth Courts Portal.”
Probably not commonwealth. I did a search on NSW courts site and this showed up…
Tanamerah Estates Pty Ltd v Tibra Capital Pty Ltd (Tibra Capital Pty Ltd )
I don’t think it has all dates though, looks like just the upcoming ones. No idea who this Tanamerah Estates is. Anyone?
Where did you find this case? It doesn’t show up at http://searchcourtlists.lawlink.nsw.gov.au/scm/search
I’ll download the ASIC documents for Tanamerah Estates and see who it is.
Found it. It is in the Supreme Court which means that the claim is over $750,000 AUD.
Tanamerah Estates Pty Ltd belongs to James Scott Tydeman, from Wentworth Falls in NSW.
James Tydeman… How interesting….
Why is he suing Tibra?
If you’re at the Supreme Court at 9:30 on Wednesday you’ll find out.
get a life, its not even a whole buck
“its not even a whole buck”
Translate please?
if you can, finish the article
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/22/us-asia-hedgefunds-idUSBRE90L00420130122
So “buck” means “million dollars”? I think you misunderstood the word “over” in relation to $750,000 AUD. “over” means “more than”.
See http://www.courts.lawlink.nsw.gov.au/cats/which_court_or_tribunal/jurisdiction.html
That page also says: “It deals with the most serious criminal matters, including murder and treason.”
Maybe it’s not a money matter, but someone feels like there’s a traitor in their midst…
or gorillas in the mist
Hey JT, how’d the opening day go?
JT Marlin
As one of the earliest developer, James Tydeman falling out with Tibra can’t be a good thing for Tibra in their case against Optiver.
anon@3:08am said: “As one of the earliest developer, James Tydeman falling out with Tibra can’t be a good thing for Tibra in their case against Optiver.”
Why would it have any impact? Every FTD insider knows that Optiver’s claims are bogus, including JT.
I think it will turn out that this latest dispute is simply about $ from when JT jumped ship a couple of years back.
JT jumped ship? More like got run out of the company for not actually doing anything useful for his last two years there – tried to ensure every decision affecting development had to go through him, then never actually made decisions. This is probably over his being forced to sell his shares on ceasing to be an employed by Tibra while others (e.g. Bhandari and Maddock) weren’t forced to sell theirs when they left. Not that Tibra shares are worth anything these days, company’s just throwing good money after bad.
http://www.caselaw.nsw.gov.au/action/PJUDG?s=1000,jgmtid=162910
Looks like Tibra won that bout.
Tydeman can choose to testify either for or against Tibra irrespective of whether they did in fact steal the code or not.
If Tibra did not actually steal the code, but he testifies that they did, then he is at risk of perjuring himself. (There was a former judge that went to jail for two years over something as insignificant as a $75 speeding fine!) And what could he possibly say without implicating himself anyway? “Everyone except me copied the code”? A judge won’t buy that, especially coming from a disgruntled employee that tried to sue the company for bucketloads of cash and failed.
Paragraph 21 seems to be the substance of the claim. Tydeman is saying that he was ripped off when Tibra bought back his shares.
Funniest part is that he is representing himself. In the immortal words of Tex Perkins:
“Better get a lawyer son, better get a real good one”.
What was the share price that he received for his 231830 shares?
“What was the share price that he received for his 231830 shares?”
If you read paragraph 21 of the judgement, you’ll see he is seeking the difference between what he was actually paid and what he thinks the “market value” is, as well as “disgorgement damages”. That total amount needs to be over the $750,000 threshold. Depending on the size of the “disgorgement damages”, he is claiming that he was ripped off at least $3 per share.
At June 30 last year, Tibra had total equity of $133m spread across approximately 61 million shares, so the “Net Asset Value methodology” mentioned in paragraph 21(ii) means he probably received a little over $2 per share.
So in summary he is claiming that Tibra should have paid him at least $5 per share. Since “none of the other shareholders in Tibra offered to acquire Tanamerah’s shares”, he expects Tibra to pay some ridiculous price? Good luck with that, kiddo.
No the funniest part was he brought his mum along and she helped him take notes…
At the hearing of the notices of motion, at Mr Tydeman’s request, and without objection from counsel for Tibra, I permitted his mother, Catherine Tydeman (“Ms Tydeman”), who is also a director of Tanamerah, to sit with him at the bar table and act as a “McKenzie friend” (see, McKenzie v McKenzie [1971] P 33). Thereafter, she sat at the bar table, with Mr Tydeman, taking notes, quietly making suggestions to him, guiding him, generally, in relation to the conduct of the proceedings and providing other assistance. She did not seek to address the court, or otherwise take an active part in the proceedings. (There was no suggestion that she was qualified as a solicitor.)
He dug a pretty big hole for himself with his whole distrust of lawyers thing – look at 54.42.c, it’s priceless: “The Plaintiffs believe some lawyers may be skilled enough to push the ‘truth’ to the point where it is not strictly speaking ‘wrong’, and this conduct attributes to feelings of mistrust of the legal”profession, in general.”
After reading the almost 200 paragraphs that constitute the judgement, it’s sad to see that the actual complaint was never even addressed. The whole thing can be summarised as, “JT has no understanding of the legal system and no idea how to present his case, so he wasted a lot of money by bringing something to the supreme court in the wrong way.”
Sounds like tough times for Tibra at the moment, time to dangle a couple of million in front of Hilgers and get him to jump ship and stop the rot
Hearing rumours that IMC is putting together a proposal to buy Tibra
Not much left to buy. They should close the company and return the money to shareholders.
…and the source code to Optiver
How many tibra guys will be joining Hilgers in the richest 100 in the BRW this year?
IMC does not have the money to buy Tibra
“At June 30 last year, Tibra had total equity of $133m spread across approximately 61 million shares, so the “Net Asset Value methodology” mentioned in paragraph 21(ii) means he probably received a little over $2 per share.
So in summary he is claiming that Tibra should have paid him at least $5 per share. Since “none of the other shareholders in Tibra offered to acquire Tanamerah’s shares”, he expects Tibra to pay some ridiculous price? Good luck with that, kiddo.”
But aren’t you assuming that the stock was being bought and sold at book value?
He could have paid for the stock at more than book, but was forced to sell at book. Facebook was selling at way more than book on SecondMarket before it went IPO. An IP based company would not be valued at just 1x book.
“But aren’t you assuming that the stock was being bought and sold at book value?”
I’m not assuming anything about what he paid for the shares. If he thinks now that he paid too much, then that is his problem. No one had a gun to his head. Imagine a market where hindsight allowed you to cancel trades you did a few years ago.
If Tibra’s bid uses a Net Asset Value methodology then that’s all he gets.
you guys have no idea who is really making money trading. they arent in any richest 100 list. its all offshore in the cayman
IMC are trying to get into the hedge fund business and are trying to raise assets. Unfortunately investors see that they have a conflict of interests with the prop business next to a hedge fund business.
“If Tibra’s bid uses a Net Asset Value methodology then that’s all he gets.”
Yeah I think he didn’t read the fine print. Seems pretty clear.
I think employees were buying and selling in some internal auction or SecondMarket. He probably assume he can sell the same way.
“Yeah I think he didn’t read the fine print. Seems pretty clear.”
Can you post a copy of the share sale agreement?
No…. I am just going by “Net Asset Value” in the judgement. 🙂
Why would the company force you to sell when you leave? And why only some people but not all.
Seems like a pretty stupid thing to do. There are probably shareholding employees watching this unfolding.
“No…. I am just going by “Net Asset Value” in the judgement.”
I cant see anywhere where in the judgement saying Tydeman has failed. I think if he gets a solicitor he can keep going.
“I think if he gets a solicitor he can keep going.”
He’s got no choice: Unless by 20 February 2012, a notice of legal practitioner acting has been filed and served by a solicitor retained by Tanamerah Estates Pty Limited, the proceedings be stayed.
I am sure Ms Tydeman is a sharp and capable woman, but…
Haha this is all so funny.
Tibra are not strangers to the courts!!
Is anyone from eclipse getting into the rich list?
Nothing to do with office politics. The shareholders agreement lists the conditions you need to satisfy to retain your shares. JT knew when he left that he didn’t satisfy those conditions so he had to sell. Bhandari continues to satisfy those conditions and still holds shares. Maddock chose to sell because he failed to satisfy the ongoing conditions of being a shareholder.
this IMC Asset Management initiative can never work, who would invest money into a prop trader? No pension fund would do this, and no fund of funds would do it
same thing happened with gs, the prop trading was overwhelming, but the gs brand is so strong that despite the below average performance, gsam has got market leading aum
‘Bhandari continues to satisfy those conditions ‘
what are these shareholder conditions and why is bhandari so long tibra?
the condition is a 3 yr vesting period (or similar) and also an obligation not to compete. the original sa makes it sound like you won’t be forced to sell shares below the level where new people can buy in. this was also the way the shares were marketed internally.
when the first peeps left, somebody went through the SA with a comb and managed to construct a fuck you provision: by combining a few different clauses they claimed that if no-one bid, they could force a sale at net asset value – wiping about half the share value.
there is a reasonable argument that this was never the intention of the SA, and that coming up with this interpretation is misleading. obviously not clear cut one way or the other, that’s why it’ll be a ‘complex’ case that’ll go to court if JTs mum ever gets her law degree.
originally when this issue came up, most bigwigs were saying they’d fix it, amend the agreement to remove the technical fuckyou, and make the SA match the original intent. this dragged for about a year, but because it needed 95% or whatever to change the SA or maybe cos they never intended to fix it, it never got fixed.
the funniest thing is they fucked themselves so hard cos the share price halved overnight – no-one would buy something with the risk of getting fired tomorrow and forced to sell unders. so all that brw rich list bs is based on shares marked at the offer in a market wider than clerks arsehole. no market, so no shareholders had a chance of getting out at the high, they get to hold that shit and watch it bleed every day.
so now you know
Thanks for the update Timmy.
“the funniest thing is they fucked themselves”
You forgot to to mention that this was the catalyst for a raft of European guys quitting to setup Maven (who now employ heaps ex-tibra guys).
“so no shareholders had a chance of getting out at the high”
Who are you proposing that these shareholders sell to? Other shareholders? Tibra?
Do you think Tibra is obliged to pay any more than Net Asset Value?
“Do you think Tibra is obliged to pay any more than Net Asset Value?”
depends on the sa and who is holding the dildo.
so basically the orignal peeps who cashed out got paid at the high, and then the SA was reconstructed ?
anybody know what optiver and Imc net asset value is ?
hahaha, this JT bloke sounds like he’s stuffed. gonna have to pay costs for tibra as well. oops….. should have stayed and copped the dildo for a few years and at least get some bonuses to cover his losses on shares. but I admire the fact that he left the place, anyone still at tibra must be either devoid of dignity or talentless.
“so basically the orignal peeps who cashed out got paid at the high, and then the SA was reconstructed ?”
No. Tibra has never paid any more than Net Asset Value for its own shares. That has been in the SA since the start and has not changed.
So more of a rescue package than a takeover? Paying what % of NAV? 70%
“Do you think Tibra is obliged to pay any more than Net Asset Value?”
If the intention is to pay a fair value for the fraction of the business owned by the departing employee, then NAV has nothing to do with it.
A price you pay for the business as a going concern depends on your view of its future earnings at that point in time, which was 2 years ago in this case.
A bank like BAC is trading less than book because the market is discounting the possibility of further litigation and writedowns from subprime. Wells steered clear of the mess and is trading at above book. What does the value of common equity has to do with valuation? It’s a reference point for sure. If two years ago Tibra was doing well then paying them just NAV they got ripped off. Valuation would have been higher.
“If the intention is to pay a fair value for the fraction of the business owned by the departing employee, then NAV has nothing to do with it.”
What if the intention is to abide by what is written in the shareholders agreement?
I’d say the intention of the shareholder agreement is to rip off smaller investors.
‘but I admire the fact that he left the place’
if you say it was stupid to do so, why do you now turn around and admire the stupidity?
‘anyone still at tibra must be either devoid of dignity or talentless’
or – ‘should have stayed and copped the dildo for a few years and at least get some bonuses to cover his losses on shares’
Do you forget your first half of post by the time you reach the second half?
‘A bank like BAC is trading less than book because the market is discounting the possibility of further litigation and writedowns from subprime’
market knows no bloody discounting mate, is the stupid discount curve as volatile as the boa’s stock price?
‘Wells steered clear of the mess and is trading at above book’
Wells got lucky mate, it didn’t know its head from ass, but it has got the biggest mortgage business in us whereas boa is winding down its countrywide, wait for bryan mohinan to make boa more wells than wells itself once boa builds their own mortgage business with fannie and freddie’s life coming to end
‘If two years ago Tibra was doing well then paying them just NAV they got ripped off. Valuation would have been higher’
you like stating the obvious multiple times?
‘I’d say the intention of the shareholder agreement is to rip off smaller investors.’
it’s the intention of every party, big or small, to rip off the other party in a deal, it’s just that strong can protect their interests well, weak are left to hung dry out, that’s life, unless of course if you are devout and don’t believe in darwinism
“and that coming up with this interpretation is misleading. obviously not clear cut one way or the other”
You are a retard of the highest order if you sign a document that says to “complete the buy back by the Company of the Sale Shares on a Net Asset Value basis” and then call it is misleading. One thing is clear cut: you are a fucking idiot.
“if you sign a document that says to “complete the buy back by the Company of the Sale Shares on a Net Asset Value basis” ”
People should start fucking reading before posting – ‘there is a reasonable argument that this was never the intention of the SA, and that coming up with this interpretation is misleading. obviously not clear cut one way or the other, that’s why it’ll be a ‘complex’ case that’ll go to court if JTs mum ever gets her law degree.’
Most reasonably it has always been the intention of that section to ensure that a bad leaver will depart with the absolute minimum. It is pretty naive to suggest otherwise…
“It is pretty naive to suggest otherwise…”
Nothing to do with good leavers or bad leavers. I don’t know if you know this, but companies don’t have to have buy back provisions if they don’t want to. Tibra chose to give shareholders a way out if they want to sell, and that price is Net Asset Value.
Wouldn’t it be nice if a company was obliged to buy your shares at a higher price than you paid for them. Risk free cash!
‘You are a retard of the highest order if you sign a document that says to “complete the buy back by the Company of the Sale Shares on a Net Asset Value basis” and then call it is misleading’
is that what has happened, what’s the confusion and court case about then ?
‘Most reasonably it has always been the intention of that section to ensure that a bad leaver will depart with the absolute minimum. It is pretty naive to suggest otherwise…’
yes, you are naive at the beginning of job and marriage that they are going to last forever, get a lawyer and a prenup before you commit to anything, haha
‘Nothing to do with good leavers or bad leavers’
do you know your head from arse?
‘I don’t know if you know this, but companies don’t have to have buy back provisions if they don’t want to’
of course companies don’t have to even pay salaries, but thank god they do, to help pay for the bills
‘Tibra chose to give shareholders a way out if they want to sell, and that price is Net Asset Value’
reminds you of IMC style management, U, the door, F U, haha
‘Wouldn’t it be nice if a company was obliged to buy your shares at a higher price than you paid for them. Risk free cash!’
It’s called incentive comp mate, do you work in finance department? handling all the cash flow but no freaking idea why?
“is that what has happened, what’s the confusion and court case about then ?”
Go and read paragraph 21 of the judgement again. The primary allegation is that Tibra breached the terms of the agreement. All the other allegations don’t amount to much if this primary allegation is false.
Reading between the lines of the judgement, I think Tydeman is using the excuse of “not trusting lawyers” when in fact he has probably been told by half a dozen of them that the case has no merit. That’s why he is representing himself.
Now that the judge has told him to get legal representation it will be interesting to see where he goes from here.
“I don’t know if you know this, but companies don’t have to have buy back provisions if they don’t want to. Tibra chose to give shareholders a way out if they want to sell, and that price is Net Asset Value.”
Hahaha. This is not about WANTING to sell. This is about being FORCED to sell. I’m sure every one would have been happy to leave and KEEP the shares until they found a bid they were happy with.
Are people really this moronically stupid, or is the the Tibra dept. of brand mgmt and damage control trying to sing a little Muddy Waters?
“I’m sure every one would have been happy to leave and KEEP the shares until they found a bid they were happy with.”
I’m sure Tibra would also be happy to have employees leave, start working for a competitor, but have no way of removing them from the share register. Idiot.
JT chose a course of action that he knew would result in selling his shares at Net Asset Value. That’s all there is to it. The court case is absurd.
@6:55 In fact towards the end of Darwins life he refined his comments proposing that its not the survival of the fittest rather the survival of the strongest communities that prevails. We advance ourselves by building mutually supportive communities.
Stinking socialist
‘Go and read paragraph 21 of the judgement again. The primary allegation is that Tibra breached the terms of the agreement. All the other allegations don’t amount to much if this primary allegation is false’
again, if the case has no merit, what’s the confusion and court case about then?
‘This is about being FORCED to sell.’
Nobody is Forced when they signed the contract, contract says sell at the end if conditions not met, what’s all the fuss about?
‘I’m sure Tibra would also be happy to have employees leave, start working for a competitor, but have no way of removing them from the share register. Idiot.’
it ain’t idotic my friend, if i left goldman to work for jp morgan, why can’t i continue to hold gs shares?
‘In fact towards the end of Darwins life he refined his comments proposing that its not the survival of the fittest rather the survival of the strongest communities that prevails. We advance ourselves by building mutually supportive communities’
yes, that’s why i said strong can protect their own interests; rich and powerful have built mutually supportive community to get even more rich and powerful, the poor people are left with weak communities, less cohesion and little in terms of mutual support
as a poor guy, you can’t expect rich guy’s community to help you, haha, stop smoking and wake up
@1:05 Internet = Community(s) = Information = Power
mate take your internet community and go shag it, that’s how powerful it is
“it ain’t idotic my friend, if i left goldman to work for jp morgan, why can’t i continue to hold gs shares?”
Because they are publicly listed. Being a shareholder in a private company tends to allow you access to more information than the general public. Idiot.
“again, if the case has no merit, what’s the confusion and court case about then?”
I thought I answered that already. The confusion exists only in the mind of JT. It’s a silly court case and that is probably why he can’t find a lawyer to represent him.
‘Being a shareholder in a private company tends to allow you access to more information than the general public’
‘tends’ is a very strong assumption, one which can very easily be taken care of? Idiot?
‘I thought I answered that already’
Think again?
‘The confusion exists only in the mind of JT. It’s a silly court case and that is probably why he can’t find a lawyer to represent him’
wasn’t this implied from when i originally stated rhetorically – ‘if the case has no merit, what’s the confusion and court case about then?’
do you want to look up in dictionary of what ‘rhetoric’ means?
“‘tends’ is a very strong assumption, one which can very easily be taken care of? Idiot?”
Is that a rhetorical question or not? You need to communicate more clearly.
No, it’s not a strong assumption. Public companies have no real control over information once it has been given to shareholders. Anyone can become a shareholder, so the information is effectively public.
Private companies can enact rules to control who can and cannot become (or continue to be) a shareholder. The upside for the shareholder is that they can be allowed access to information that is not generally available to the public.
How did you intend to easily take care of this very strong assumption?
The ONLY thing decided in JTs appearance was whether he was allowed to represent himself. The answer is no (because it is no, because it’s the NSW Supreme court and the shares are held in trust with a corporate trustee, so he’s actually representing the trustee corporation, not himself).
The judge specifically pointed out he was making no determination on the merits of the actual case, apart from pointing out it is complex. JT is free to continue if he gets a lawyer.
“JT is free to continue if he gets a lawyer.”
Of course he is. But you have to ask why he doesn’t already have a lawyer. He admits that will not face financial hardship by doing so. He blames a “general distrust of lawyers”. If I was deluded, that’s what I would say too if lawyers kept telling me that the case had no merit.
“JT is free to continue if he gets a lawyer.”
Why bother? Crowd source it to this discussion thread. Here you will find the best legal minds of our age who knows everything. Fire Ms T and we’ll nail Tibra for you JT!
‘Because they are publicly listed. Being a shareholder in a private company tends to allow you access to more information than the general public. Idiot.’
Lots of Optiver shareholders don’t work for Optiver anymore. As far as I know, Optiver is not a public company. Idiot.
JT is doing fine, fine!
http://www.jt.nl/
this is funny stuff. I’m hearing very bad things from people who’ve recently left Tibra as well as from people who are still there. No one except the principals are or ever were happy with the SA.
I’m hearing good things….
LOL. A real nest of vipers, all turning on one another!
this should be renamed the “Williamson vs Muirhead” blog.
Thought they both hate Tibra
I love Tibra. Happy Valentines Day!
i love the hammer, happy valentines day
Heard Emir left IMC. What happened?
St Valentine happened
who is emir?
i’ll take a random guess on what happened to him, his ass got replaced by somebody cheaper
Emir started the IMC Chicago office and headed it for many many years. I guess Rob wanted the office to be run by the Dutch.
or emir just didn’t see the future monies worth the future effort?
Rumors are that Emir’s job was too much overlapping with the new CEO in Chicago, so Hartog fired him to still have something to do in the office. An example that not always cheaper people replace more expensive people at IMC
This thread is getting off topic with Emir. Please bring the focus back to Tibra drama.
you don’t have to worry about getting off topic, plenty of topics can be discussed all at the same time, you just need relevant participants and comments
‘Rumors are that Emir’s job was too much overlapping with the new CEO in Chicago, so Hartog fired him to still have something to do in the office’
this happens everytime there is new management, old management gets the boot, what’s new?
‘An example that not always cheaper people replace more expensive people at IMC’
here the cost saving is less of an issue and there is question of trust, emir lost trust of rob n pot, at any level of heirarchy, that means your boss is going to replace your arse, hartog wouldn’t have been any expensive anyways
anyone know if JT found a lawyer?
Your mom
Everyone’s mum is busy with their kid’s lawsuit already.
i am going to lawsuit your busy mum
Looks like JT got a lawyer:
http://searchcourtlists.lawlink.nsw.gov.au/scm/search
1st March, 9:00.
or he’s appealing the judgement. should be fun either way.
he’s just signed up to lose even more money unfortunately…. but optiver and tibra signed up to losing a lerger amount of money to lawyers with their ongoing court case. How much have they spent on lawyers each?
Tibra didn’t actually sign up to anything. They are the defendants remember?
Yes. Tibra. Somehow they always ended up as the defendant with someone.
Optiver doesn’t mind losing money on the Tibra case. It’s just a deterrent for other entrepeneurial optiver traders and developers that are thinking of setting up their own shop with borrowed code.
I hear rumours that Tibra are suing Maven now.
Suing Maven for what?
tibra suing maven? surely not. if they do then the principals must be the most hypocritical clowns going around. surely, surely they won’t.
‘How much have they spent on lawyers each?’
8 bid at 14
‘Looks like JT got a lawyer:
http://searchcourtlists.lawlink.nsw.gov.au/scm/search‘
the link is just a search portal, what do i look for, your mum?
‘Somehow they always ended up as the defendant with someone.’
if individuals go against you, you’ll be always be defendant as a big business, if you are starting from another company with possible stolen code, you’ll be again defendant, it’s not like they have bad luck, it’s just the circumstance
‘Optiver doesn’t mind losing money on the Tibra case. It’s just a deterrent for other entrepeneurial optiver traders and developers that are thinking of setting up their own shop with borrowed code’
how easy is it to borrow code? would the borrowed code actually make any difference given the environment? is anybody actually thinking of pulling off something like this anymore? it’s just a stupid distraction, but i guess that’s what management needs, enough distraction for the worker bees
‘surely, surely they won’t.’
are you maven?
‘Suing Maven for what?’
non-compete?
‘Suing maven for what ?’
If those guys are being sued, then there are two lawsuits against them. Optiver is already suing them for showing up at Tibra without staying out for the non-compete plus the code
so optiver is suing maven now?
how is IMC doing these days?
don’t change the subject
Hypothetically speaking, Is it possible for Tibra to sue maven for stealing code if Tibra stole the code from optiva?
>‘Looks like JT got a lawyer:
http://searchcourtlists.lawlink.nsw.gov.au/scm/search‘
>the link is just a search portal, what do i look for, your mum?
Search for tanamerah
You will need to also set the Date field to all weeks.
It’s 9am tomorrow in Court 1A Queens Square Sydney. Bring popcorn.
They’re both directions hearings, so we won’t get a nice published judgement like we did for the previous one. Anyone want to take one for the team and attend on the 13th? I’m guessing no-one attended today.
who cares, old disgruntled leavers always dream about suing their employers, what’s the point in watching one play out in real life?
Many dream about it, but few get as far as the supreme court, and even fewer bring their mum with them to the supreme court. This is JT – it’s bound to be entertaining one way or another.
“who cares, old disgruntled leavers always dream about suing their employers, what’s the point in watching one play out in real life?”
Because there are half a dozen past and present employees who are either also in the process of suing Tibra or will be. They want to know how this case pans out.
There must be a pretty long queue of people lining up to sue Tibra. I hear that even one of their former catering ladies threatened them with legal action. Pretty funny that they seem to think comments here are the best way to communicate anonymously though.
“even fewer bring their mum with them to the supreme court. This is JT – it’s bound to be entertaining one way or another.”
Didn’t he buy into Tibra shares with his mum’s self-managed super fund? Poor JT must feel pretty bad losing his mum’s life savings to a bunch of crooks.
I hear Tim Berry is doing a great job running Tibra at the moment. Profitability going one way apparently.
The only ones who can do a great job are the traders, Tim Berry, like the other managers at Tibra are just overhead.
‘Didn’t he buy into Tibra shares with his mum’s self-managed super fund?’
Did he do that for tax reasons?
‘Poor JT must feel pretty bad losing his mum’s life savings to a bunch of crooks’
who is the bunch of crooks?
‘The only ones who can do a great job are the traders, Tim Berry, like the other managers at Tibra are just overhead.’
so why are they not hiring more of those great traders and fire some of the overhead managers?
‘Didn’t he buy into Tibra shares with his mum’s self-managed super fund? Poor JT must feel pretty bad losing his mum’s life savings to a bunch of crooks.’
So next we’ll get to see JT being sued by his mum for mismanaging her super fund?
‘so why are they not hiring more of those great traders and fire some of the overhead managers?’
how can management fire itself?
‘So next we’ll get to see JT being sued by his mum for mismanaging her super fund?’
being stupid isn’t a sue-able offence?
‘how can management fire itself?’
sr mgmt can fire jr mgmt? are you mgmt?
Tim, stop being so precious.
which comment is from tim, and how is he being precious?
hail sir lancelot cometh
Everyone wants to know where Christopher Dowson is ehm? He has shacked up with a fashion blogger named Rumi Neely of Fashion Toast since 2013 and is living in LA with her. Rumi treats him like a God and said in an interview he “works in finance” yeesh. Chris Dowson is indicted and banned from US trading since 2012 for 8 years , yet he is still loaded and somehow got a visa??? His instagram is http://www.instagram.com/christopherdowson and all he does is take vacations with Rumi Neely and fund her expensive lifestyle, he bought them a hollywood house and she barely works on her Fashiontoast blog any more. Guess he got away with his stolen money. He paid for her Are You Am I clothing line. Its all documented on Chris Dowson’s instagram and Rumi’s http://www.instagram.com/rumineely
Has he still got the speed boat?
Yes the internet was a better place when Rumi was still working on her Fashtiontoast blog. Your point being?
he didn’t steal any money, in an case nobody cares, sorry to disappoint, next
I’d liқe tо find out more? Ӏ’d like to find out some additiⲟnal information.