Duyfken sails into Quote 500
This Thursday in the stores in the country, the Dutch rich list Quote 500 edition 2012 is out again. The millionaires from the trading floor have my very special attention – and I’m glad to say there’s something new to share apart from the usual suspects.
Beside the top 500, the Quote research team has made lists of fat cats per region – lowering the bar. And that’s where we find the new names, mainly from Duyfken trading (who?) and Binck.
First things first. The usual suspects, grouped by trading firm.
IMC
Rob Defares €300 +50%
Wiet Pot €310 +29,2% (a lot of Goldman Sachs cash)
Rene Schelvis
Optiver
Leo van den Berg €94 +4,4%
Johann Kaemingk €380 +26,7%
Ruud Vlek
Jan Dobber
Chris Oomen
Flow Traders
Roger Hodenius
Jan van Kuijk
Other
Allard Jakobs €180 -10% (All Options)
Jurjen & Hugo Kruisinga €120 -4,0% (Cross Options)
David Slager
Adri Strating
Alexander Roepers €600 (new) (hedge fund Atlantic Partners)
With All Options as a tiny market maker unable to compete in the main stocks and index, Allard Jakobs’ fortune looks overestimated – but sources assure me the money is all there. Cash. Maybe his teak investments made a killing. Alexander Roepers, 54 years old, is new on the list. It’s not a typo – the researchers have overlooked the guy for years. IMC had a great year, and Rob Defares made a great jump in his net worth. For more details check out last year’s overview or the list in 2010.
As mentioned, the mini lists for some regions have some interesting names. Not fat enough to reach the first 500, but rich enough for some attention.
Duyfken Trading Knowledge
Dennis Brinke (42jr) €40 Regio Gooi/Utrecht
Reindert Stoffer (42jr) €40 Regio Groot Amsterdam
Stijn Boon (41jr) €30 Regio Groot Amsterdam
Serge Erkens (41jr) €30 Regio Groot Amsterdam
Binck
Thierry Schaap (41jr) €20 Regio Gooi/Utrecht
Kalo Bagijn (40jr) €20 Regio Groot Amsterdam
Other
Jan Kluft (68jr) Delta/Paerel €40
Bert Smit (65jr) ExtraClearing/Stroeve €40
Ronald van der Geest (45jr) FlowTraders €35
<>
Everyone knows Binck and their founders. The other firms (Paerel, Stroeve) will ring a bell too. On the other side there’s Duyfken Trading Knowledge. Founded in 2002, a headcount of around twenty and a strong academic background – mainly in physics. Keyword is “econophysics”. Sponsoring an econophysics department at the university of Leiden (link, Dutch). Duyfken, named after a VOC ship, is apparently highly profitable and highly secretive. There isn’t even a company website. In the comments Duyfken has been confused with people with the name Duivenbode – that is completely unrelated (to avoid confusion).
Most of the Duyfken partners have their roots at Optiver (Erkens, Stoffer, Brinke). From IMC comes Stijn Boon – who traded in IMC colors in the AEX Index pit. The managing partner is Stoffer. The latter is also the owner of one of the priciest houses in Amsterdam Zuid.
Prof, Stoffer and Vos
Duyfken? Hoe komen ze daar nu weer bij? Het eigen vermogen van Duyfken was eind 2011 4,4 miljoen na een winst van krap 7 ton euro dat jaar. Dat zijn geen cijfers die stroken met de 140 miljoen die ik opgeteld zie voor de 4 heren. Ik denk dat ze bij Quote vergeten zijn om de 120 miljoen aan langlopende schulden (aan de clearing) te verwerken in hun rekensommetjes.
Met zulke logica kun je Van Duivenbode ook opnemen in de lijst.
Dennis Brinke kennen we allemaal als de kerel die bij Optiver eerst ruzie kreeg met ‘kale’ Leo van den Berg, daarna mocht hij Optiver NYC opzetten, dat liep niet al te best en toen was het exit Dennis en exit Optiver in NYC waarna Optiver een kantoortje begon in Chicago. Speelde allemaal eind 2000 tot midden 2001
SMH Leiden, Econophysics != Quant Finance, and I think one could argue that Econophysics is inferior. While I agree that mathematical methods are the way forward in finance, I don’t think the way mathematical modeling is approached by physicists is suitable and would not consider Jim Simons as a “founder of Econophysics”, because he’s not a physicist and as far as I can tell he hasn’t published articles regarding Econophysics. I find it hard to believe “Duyfken trading” has made much money if it has applied Econophysics
Zit die Ferry Vos (uit de link) ook bij Duyfken? Die kwam toch van AOT?
Briljante foto bij die Duyfken link helemaal onderaan. Links de professor die een stropdas onder z’n elleboog draagt, die oud geld gast in het midden was vorige week te zien bij Jort Kelder, en die gozer rechts heeft z’n pak 3 maten te groot gekocht bij C&A.
http://www.beeldbank.leidenuniv.nl/ImageDisplay.php?uid=FT084095&thumbed=6
@econophysic haha.. Check there personal holdings….. The money is there, not in Duyfken….
Duyfken? How did they get there now again? The equity of Duyfken end of 2011 was 4.4 million after a profit of just under 7 tons euros that year. These are not numbers that correspond to the 140 million that I added to see the 4 men. I think they forgot to Quote for the 120 million of long-term debt (the clearing) into their calculations.
With such logic can you From Duivenbode also record in the list.
Dennis Brinke we all know as the guy at Optiver first fell out with ‘bare’ Leo van den Berg, then he could Optiver NYC establishment that was not too good and it was Dennis exit and exit Optiver in NYC before one Optiver office began in Chicago. Played all late 2000 to mid-2001
Is that Fox Ferry (from the link) also Duyfken? It came right from AOT?
Brilliant picture in which Duyfken link at the bottom. Left the professor who wears a tie under his elbow, that old money guest in the middle was last week seen in Jort Kelder, and the guy on the right has his suit 3 sizes too big purchased at C & A.
What’s with this obsession abt how many tens and hundreds of million financial types have made?
Where is Frank Vogel? The global tax “arbitrage” should have moved him into that list. Or did his real economy companies (Frango Chicken et al.) sink a lot of the honestly generated money?
die van der geest (sn..) party , met zijn teksten heeft goed geld verdiend, dankzij jan en roger maar ze wilden ook daar liever niet met hem door
dave tube
that of the mind (sn..) party, with his texts has earned good money, thanks to Jan and Roger but they would also prefer not to him by
shouldn’t p. hilgers be on the rich list??
Yes, if it weren’t for the fact that he’s not Dutch.
aw bamm!
Who is Hilgers ? and why the big deal of his net worth ?
isn’t hilgers one of the ex-top management people for optiver sydney, some wanker keeps finding it funny to make jokes about hilgers making billion of personal punting on gold etc.
who knows, who cares?
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/paul-w-hilgers/7/62/706
A billion might be a bit of a stretch, but certainly a couple of hundred million. He does like to spend 🙂 And it wasn’t so much gold (how did you come up with that?) as his savvy investments in the tech sector during the internet bubble that made him his fortune. Ask some other Optiver managers (if you know any). And he is still the head of Optiver in Sydney, not ex-top management. Sounds like you’ve never met him, have you?
Hilgers a couple hundred: SOLD. at 5 mil. He spent some time in Amsterdam in 2003-2005 with VDM trying to manage that bunch of old skool stocktraders and left for Australia to work with a clearing company. You don’t do that with that much money. Later he got a job with Optiver. Made good money (and had already a very rich wife, which helps) from then, but nowhere near the amounts mentioned.
Too many jealous people and waanbe traders on this blog!
Before all you native English (and Dutch Bashing and probably Dutch paid) start complaining, that should be “wannabe traders”. Typo.
Rubbish, Hilgers is the Man! 500 bid.
@ 1:35 pm
it seems you are confusing a couple of things. he had made a lot of money before he went to vdm in amsterdam. and the rich wife, that’s his ex-wife … thanks to the divorce.
I would also like to marry a very rich woman and take it from there. Any hints, Paul?
Alan van Griethuysen (NYSE Euronext) interviewt Jelle Elzinga (Optiver)
Doordat market makers als Optiver doorlopend deze bied- en laatprijzen in deze instrumenten afgeeft, heeft een belegger zekerheid dat er altijd een koper of verkoper is voor de opties of futures die hij wil kopen of verkopen.
Onze winst zit hem in het feit dat onze biedprijs net een fractie lager, en onze laatprijs net fractie hoger is dan wat een financieel instrument volgens ons theoretisch waard zou moeten zijn.
Misschien kan ik proberen iets van de angst weg te nemen die sommige beleggers onterecht hebben voor ‘high frequency trading ‘ of HFT.
De CTFC wil Optiver laten bloeden omdat handelaren in Chicago de markten voor ruwe olie, benzine en stookolie zouden hebben gemanipuleerd in 2007 met een strategie genaamd ‘banging the close’, waarbij gebruik werd gemaakt van speciale software die ‘the hammer’ werd genoemd. De manipulatie vindt plaats door een grote positie op te bouwen vlak voor de markt sluit, om op het moment dat deze sluit weer volledig af te bouwen.
I heard in this interview, that MM hedge their positions with totally different products:
http://activehedge.com/interviews/players/JE.htm
So they can hedge an ING option with shares of Arcelor Mittal. That comes as a surprise to me (as non-market maker). So if i understand it
correctly, a huge buy or sell order in the option market can’t move the
underlying in a particular direction, because MM hedge his position with something totally different? Is this different with the old-days where options were hedged with the underlying shares?
Is it possible to estimate how many of the delta’s in your books are hedged with the underlying and how much in other products?
Has a MM any control about this hedgingproces or does the computer makes all the calculations and the final decision making proces about the products to hedge the risk?
‘And he is still the head of Optiver in Sydney, not ex-top management. Sounds like you’ve never met him, have you?’
Nau mate, I ain’t met him, so, how about a Fosters mate.
‘Too many jealous people and waanbe traders on this blog’
who is jealous and who is waanbe, and that too a trader, fk no.
‘Because market makers as Optiver this continuous bid and offer prices in these instruments it is an investor certainty that there is always a buyer or a seller for the options or futures that he wants to buy or sell.’
continuous, ha.
always a buyer or seller, ha.
‘Our advantages lie in the fact that our offer price just a fraction lower, and our offer price just slightly higher than what a financial instrument according to our theoretical value should be.’
fraction lower and fraction higher, money in the pocket, ha.
‘Maybe I can try some of the fear take away that some investors have incorrectly for high frequency trading or HFT.’
yes you can try all you want, but you can’t change the reality.
‘Supervisor requires at least $ 10 million from Optiver
The Bologna vs. Napoli wants Optiver bleed because traders in Chicago markets for crude oil, gasoline and heating oil would have been manipulated in 2007 with a strategy called “banging the close”, which used special software that ‘the hammer was called. The manipulation takes place by a large position to build up right before the market closes, in order, at the time that it closes fully to build.’
Here’s another version of it,
http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/barclays-set-to-fight-ferc-over-bragging-not-rigging/491797/
‘So they can hedge an ING option with shares of Arcelor Mittal.’
Of course, they can, they would be shitting their pants too if the size of this sort of hedging in large size.
‘So if i understand it
correctly, a huge buy or sell order in the option market can’t move the
underlying in a particular direction, because MM hedge his position with something totally different?’
So if MM is hedging ING with Arcelor, the Arcelor MM is hedging with ING, at the end if there is selling or buying pressure, everything moves, don’t be surprised if other asset classes start moving with big enough order size in goddamm ING.
‘Is it possible to estimate how many of the delta’s in your books are hedged with the underlying and how much in other products?
Has a MM any control about this hedgingproces or does the computer makes all the calculations and the final decision making proces about the products to hedge the risk?’
yes and yes and much more, all black box these days.
Nobody of Saen Options in that list? Thought Allard overpaid a little 😉
By the way, what happened to Ralph van Put? Apparently he got IMC to sponsor his trading room in HK University so he could become adjunct professor.
who cares?
Based on the above net worth list.
Do Optiver and IMC have an equity value of Euro 600-800 million ?
How does that compare to American and Australian MM firms ?
‘Do Optiver and IMC have an equity value of Euro 600-800 million ? ‘
of course not, they take the money out and give it to the shareholders so that if no more money is made for some time they just close an office
are you referring to the recent closing of the IMC Hong Kong office?
‘of course not’
how did you reach that conclusion, where are the shares trading among partners, private share price*no of shares should give the equity value
‘they take the money out and give it to the shareholders so that if no more money is made for some time they just close an office’
that’s how business should work, not like apple which keeps 110bn cash pile while tim cook gets to burn it with his incompetence and lack of vision
‘are you referring to the recent closing of the IMC Hong Kong office?’
no he is refering to the fact that he is euro era socialist who hasn’t woken upto bond market realities, give him some more time, he’ll come around it.
‘private share price*no of shares should give the equity value’
ever heard of something called dividend?
yes, your point?
of course some prudent investor will pay 10 times earnings for a MM
‘are you referring to the recent closing of the IMC Hong Kong office?’
no, he is referring to the likely closing of the IMC Zug office
like i said, he is referring to him being a euro era socialist
‘of course some prudent investor will pay 10 times earnings for a MM’
how did you conclude 10, it’s a private market transaction with no liquid/listed comparison, it’s not simple as paying a multiple on current earning, how much did Flow get brought for?
we are manue facturer of stone products in indis .
if , you are interested kindly replay me