Options on Brunel and Ten Cate
The tragedy in Japan has sent markets south, but only after the nuclear problems in Fukushima appeared too difficult to handle a few days after the disaster struck. While there isn’t any market maker betting on the occurrence of this kind of misery, most market makers will be hedging their downward risks in any market. The far otm puts weren’t much in demand recently, but this “black swan” must have shaken up the profit and loss accounts of all firms. So far it looks like all market makers with operations in the Nikkei options have survived – but some must have taken hits for sure. Ongoing revolutions and wars in oil-rich autocratic regimes add another layer of uncertainty the coming weeks. Also, Knut passed away in Berlin. When trouble comes, they come not in single spies but in batallions.
Back to small local business
Introducing new option classes is free and easy for the exchange. Liquidity providers are generally happy to commit themselves to send their quotes – and when there’s no volume there aren’t any costs for Euronext and Eurex. It’s just the market maker which is trapped into the quoting obligations and taking risk. Anyway, two more illiquid tiny option classes to be introduced very soon. Brunel International (BI) on April 5th and Koninklijke Ten Cate (KTC) on March 29th. Signing up for primary or competitive market maker licenses ends for KTC this monday the 21st. However, I can’t imagine there will be much apetite for quoting these options so there’s no need to hurry. One can always join in on vacant places afterwards. After all, a primary market maker license (pmm) for Vopak, Nutreco, Aperam, Aalberts and Heijmans to name a few are freely available.
so pnl’s on the nikki from tibra, imc, liquid, optiver???? from the last week?
Sorry, but whoever lost money on the Nikkei last week deserves to be taken out back and shot in the testicles. You can’t ask for better trading conditions, but would have been nicer without the massive death toll.
RIP Knut 🙁
‘shot in the testicles’
calm down buddy,
The trading conditions were great no doubt. Point is the quake happened after Tokyo market close ? Anyone could have been caught short over the weekend. Hedging in other open indices was possible. Those just did not crash as hard….
The quake happened half an hour before the close dude… no need to hedge elswhere unless you are jr idiot who gets told what to do by his boss after the close…..but then you shouldn’t be on a product like that in the first place!
http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2011/03/18/ex-goldman-programmer-sentenced-to-8-years-for-theft-of-trading-code/
Speaking of crooks, anyone know if there has been any movement on the CFTC case? I heard there is a class action seperate from the CFTC which cost Optiver an extra few million in damages.
Speaking of crooks, anyone know if there has been any movement on the CFTC case? I heard there is a class action seperate from the CFTC which could cost Optiver an extra few million in damages.
trading conditions were great im sure, but noone caught caught short 3 big down days in a row? what vol were the way otm puts trading? market was down 20 per cent in three days.
@ 11:14 and 12:53
Guys can you please clarify for us in the non Asia side of the world.
Did the quake on Friday… Happen before or after Tokyo Option market close ?
Definitely before the close.
Wikipedia says earthquake hit at 2:46pm local time. Market closes at 3pm, and evening session starts at 4:30pm.
Liquid dominated the nikkei p&l. again.
Did they make 12m EUR or 12m USD?
would have thought usd?
Either way, they came a distant second.
Yen
shuts at 3:10 actually
and plenty of time to trade into the evening session too before the weekend
“Wikipedia says earthquake hit at 2:46pm local time. Market closes at 3pm, and evening session starts at 4:30pm.”
@ 5:25 “Either way, they came a distant second. ”
Banks dont count ? MMs only….
‘ 12m EUR or 12m USD’
they are based out of LDN, why EUR or USD, it should be YEN or GBP ?!
‘Either way, they came a distant second’
who came first and how much $ P&L >?
if you’re talking about liquid nikkei you’ll have to let us know what you’re defining. they have multiple books out of sydney, plus a team in hk too all covering nikkei
earthquake happened just before mkt close, but no one really knew how bad it was until afterwards, nk vol hardly moved until night session. people definitely coulda been caught short
yeah i heard susqies made 17mio just on the tuesday. 17% range day
‘nk vol hardly moved until night session’
classic behavioral finance,
As always the traders who made the 12 mio in the nk get their 30 cent on the dollar just like the Sx5E traders in London got their 30% of the 100 mio they made. We never cheat our traders but rather throw in something extra to appreciate their outstanding luck, eh performance.
IKBR traded most of the volumes on EWJ (Japanese ETF listed in US). Massive volumes went through on the 10 and 9 put.
@ March 22nd, 2011 at 2:08 pm classic behavioral finance,
The american markets too finished up .75% on the day…
i heard liquid fucked everyone on bono this year too…
do you wat is the payout ratio, in VDM it was 40% and in optiver its 30%, of course this is the trading bonus pool, so among different traders its slight bit of discretion,
*know
liquid is 25, but they take out a whole crapload of ‘fees’ first
you mean costs? thats standard practice at chop shop type places
25 is not too bad given no downside, but quite low still
Hi Trader Jack
I recently saw some photos from a website of pictures from the floor days of the optie beurs. Do you know of any other websites or places to get pictures of the market makers on the floor….
What do you think, ladies? We want to party, listen to gospel music and take it easy. We spend truckloads of money and consequently it would not be reasonable to pay out too much. Furthermore, the less we pay, the more difficult it is for our servants to set up their own shop.
Is Liquid a gud place to apply to as a junior? How much is the base salery? Do they offer free lunch, snacks and beverages?
I hear Liquid have a personal trainer and a masseuse. What kind of massage does she offer? Does it depend on the P&L one generates?
yes they offer snacks. Free knuckle sandwiches and icey cold cans of whoop-ass.
Every. Body. Dance. Now !
if bonus shafting happens every year, wouldn’t that just become the expected bonus.
‘if bonus shafting happens every year, wouldn’t that just become the expected bonus.’
if that was the case with whole industry, yes; but liquid seem to pay 20-25 when other MM might be on 30,
Fairly sure Tibra pay 50%.
the hilarious thing about liquid is that they charge you a heap of money for their sysytem which is worthless. tibra and imc their systems actually you money as soon as you turn it on
About all you liquid boys, you know that if you were good enough to go anywhere else you would. If you feel you deserve more go get more, until then shut up and suck up some more you might even make it to senior.
does anyone know what the payout is at imc? you always hear liquid 25, optiver 35, vdm 40, etc but never anything from imc? and what about sig?
i wud guess less than 20-25 for SIG and IMC you are just happy to survive, the firing rate is amazing,
Liquid pays alot more than 25% you douchebags
Optiver pays 35, but that includes bonuses to IT and management. The costs take the lions share of trading profits, and then 35% of the remainder goes to employees. Only about 15% ends up going to the traders, with non productive offices taking a big chunk out as well. Last but not least, the taxman helps himself to 50% of the remainder, leaving only about 3% for the humble productive trader, who probably pays most of that out to greedy landlords.
SIG is nearer to 5 to 10%, but you do get a lot of capital to play with.
‘leaving only about 3% for the humble productive trader, who probably pays most of that out to greedy landlords.’
if you just do normal 8-6 job, not much risk taking, plain mm, its pretty fun life, you’ll get decent p&l off the back of flow, franchise, IT, and well the P&L is million, so 10% of that is still 100 fucking k, get over it, ur replaceable, optiver makes sure there is enough in pipeline to replace all those deserting partners,
‘SIG is nearer to 5 to 10%, but you do get a lot of capital to play with.’
SIG is not hedge fund, so 5 to 10% is not justified and neither huge capital; on the other hand if your in capital investing part of the company, thats whole another story,
@4:09 Is that you, David? The bonus deal sucks at Liquid. At least there was one moment of honesty when they posted in their job ads that the bonus would be discretionary. That is exactly what it is. And yes, their trading system is one piece of work, e.g. getting new exchanges hooked up takes forever. Leaving Liquid was one of the best decisions I ever made.
@ ur replaceable, optiver makes sure there is enough in pipeline to replace all those deserting partners
“Deserting” They made the founders richer than he could have ever imagined. The company is where it is today because of the “deserting partners” who built technology and signed off on a paper that it all belongs to the “company”.
Wake up pal, this is a business not a marriage.
Other Anonymus: thanks for buying those 300+ FTI futures market this morning! Made my day / week / month. Come again soon.
wats the P&L on those 300 futures ?
‘Wake up pal, this is a business not a marriage.’
very valid point, i myself dont understand why they keep refering to rats leaving the ship, its not a family, its just a biz,
@anonymous – March 24th, 2011 at 9:04 pm
“Leaving Liquid was one of the best decisions I ever made.”
Haha nice try dude. Someone make me a market on whether this douche bag was thrown to the curb by C&G.
I do agree however that society is better off since you left LC. Who else is going to service those sailors. Haha
@”wats the P&L on those 300 futures ?”
A 5 future points spike, so on average 2,5 point profit/loss on 300 futures would be… 150.000 (200 X 300 X 2,5)
But I think most futures were bought within the first point. And nobody can sell them all, just shared by the rest of the market.
I heard Tibra pays 70% bonus
And Sinterklaas really exists
‘ thanks for buying those 300+ FTI futures market this morning! Made my day / week / month. Come again soon.’
‘A 5 future points spike, so on average 2,5 point profit/loss on 300 futures would be… 150.000 (200 X 300 X 2,5)’
so if shared by 5 future spread player, thats 30k for each, thats a good days’s work for a decent size participant desk .. i think the guy above is from All options who just had an orgasm seeing all the free money, probably has never seen any sort of money since Altana,
seeing by the prints in BBG, doesnt seem like one big order, seemed like sliced order with wrong algo instruction like finish in 5 second rather than 5 minutes and obv sent at wrong time, 15 min before cash market open,
@ 12:35 very valid point, i myself dont understand why they keep refering to rats leaving the ship, its not a family, its just a biz,
Its not a business. It is family. Like the Sopranos.. 😉
‘Its not a business. It is family. Like the Sopranos..’
yah at Global management team, it is like that, close family .. but at partner level, there are too many partners, it becomes too big to be a family any more ..
is it the global or the Local management team. There are so many teams now….