Alphabay’s positions sold to Liquid
Alphabay has liquidated its derivatives positions tuesday. The total positions were cut in three portions. The AEX index positions (including options with long maturity), the Euronext stock options and the Eurex stock options were offered as separate batches. The word is Liquid Capital has taken over all the positions.
Alphabay has never been a popular firm. The former managers at Van der Moolen appeared to have outsmarted the VDM liquidators, taking over VDM’s derivative positions against a steep discount of 3,5 million. The rest of the market suggest foul play. Reliable sources suggest the 3,5 million catch has been burned completely in the past year – there’s nothing left for the partners and they may even have lost their investments.
The persistent (but yet officially unconfirmed) rumor is the remaining positions have been sold to Liquid Capital. The irony is the former head of Van der Moolen unit in Zug is responsible for the single stocks at Liquid. He would be effectively buying back a part of his own former positions. It is a small world after all. In a fair auction, KBC served as independent observer, the price won’t be spectacular.
If trading remains thin, two other spin-offs from Van der Moolen are in a very fragile position. Caerus and, to a lesser extent, WEBB would need additional capital to reach 2011. The former Alphabay director in the newspaper could be right, suggesting more firms would go belly up in this climate. Another firm by Van der Moolen traders is definitely faring way better, read the entertaining story on Briargate.
Bullshit .. they burnt maybe 0.5 or 1 mil .. they are just making up stuff to give wrong impression .. they never ran any big risk, how else can u burn 3.5 mil .. dont believe what is said, use ur common sense .. its not possible to burn more than 0.5/1 mil in stuff they were upto ..
those partners were smart enuf to never invest any personal money in this dodgy biz .. to be honest apart from Egbert, other partners didnt really have spare cash lying around .. and he’s not stupid to invest even one penny of his own ..
caerus and webb were started with funds from partners .. u cudnt compare that with alphabay .. alphabay was started stealing discount from VDM shareholders, got the risk off the books and then once going got tough, it was conveniently disposed off and the stolen money pocketed away by partners in crime ..
if caerus/webb go down, thats just tough business .. but alphabay.. come on … going down is just so convenient for Egbert/Rick/Jaap .. they are able to finally monetise the money stolen from VDM shareholders .. rather too convenient ..
Hell, I’m more interested if Briargate are hiring…
why wud they hire u ? to trade when they are away in afternoon ? their developer does that for them ..
Man, be original. Start your own Briargate. Here’s a list of all anagrams based on arbitrage for you.
http://wordsmith.org/anagram/anagram.cgi?anagram=arbitrage&t=1000&a=n
I like Barrage IT
Will have to work on my swing though.
You’re right, I hate those italians as well. They make nice-looking cars and motorbikes, but they are everything but reliable. I think I will have a shot at a Miele. I have a blender, hairdryer and a body-groomer of that brand and I am really happy with them.
alphabay was started with .5 mil € capital with 5 partners…so each 100k…..however 4 of them couldnt put up the money so Egbert lent it to them. This illustrates how much confidence the other 4 had in this operation. I mean if the Castelijn brothers and Rick Smit dont even want to invest a 100 grand. Anyway , the company was burning a quarter of a million a month, so 12 month down the road it is -3 mil €. Maybe Alphabay is not the last one, bur certainly the first one to go bankrupt.
Herr doktor N. was head trader single stocks vdm in zug, famously for his handling of the vow position. liquid hasnt made any money so far this year and probably herr doktor N. is trying to save his ass by buying a big position and impress his bosses. we wish him good luck with his future career.
how on earth were they burning 250k a month? I personally find that hard to believe, surely Egbert learned some lessons about overhead from the VDM debacle
by the way…any has some spare TPG DEC10 35 syntetics??
Ok…yesterday I wanted to pay 14,80, but cmon…let’s not be cheap…today I pay more..15,35 euros!!!!
I am there, hit me!!
hey , 15 direkteuren 10k per maand, dat schiet op
partners were not drawing salary .. thats the whole concept of partnership ..
Hey, thanks for selling me the TPG DEC10 35 synt, is that you halftandje?
Wees jij maar blij met je synt. Ik vind de video toch echt interessanter. En ondertussen komt de premie naar je toe deze (na) zomer! Wooohooo!
Whoever says trading is thin, dont know a shit about the markets.
So many opportunities with the vols%skews moving all the time.This is a game of playing the range since the last year.Only the real good traders can survive it though, and luckily there are few!!
@ Stanley:
Amen!
if u are surviving, either u are the fastest in the market or u are just that gud .. if u are the fastest, well then thats just plain gud luck to have landed ur role in the right company.. if u are so good in picking up market’s direction, u shud just go solo and use delta one to line up ur own pocket !
well said mate, I’m fed up of these idiots that bullshit about great trades…if you are sooooo good, you are trading for yourself…YOU ARE NOT AN EMPLOYEE YOU FUCKO!
who said i m working for some company you suckers!
So many opportunities with vol/skews? Well, I wouldn’t say ‘so many’ – and not in equity derivs or indices. FX and commodities are the best at the moment.
did they also sell the crucell calls to liquid?
good for u Stanley ..
though forgot to add that apart from being fastest and the open risk position, another way to generate profits is through spread trading .. long/short or relative trading if u like .. those need experience and less of market direction intution .. dont need to be fastest or very exposed to market movement .. can be done in delta one, gamma, vol, skew .. anything relatively cheap or expensive ..
Alphabay wud have never been short gamma .. theta cud maybe bleed u, but negative gamma cud surely deal a deadly blow and put the company out of biz .. liquid cud have made some money but i doubt if alphabay was running any serious upside position on a stock like crucell ..
So who are the losers in crucell?
Tibra are the fastest in the market.
probably nobody lost on crucell .. i doubt if anybody was sitting large -ve gamma on it or was just short some crucell shares .. long only investors/traders got the hidden value in shares unlocked rather quickly .. gud for them !
“Tibra are the fastest in the market.” haha – yeh, fast like a SnakeOil salesman selling his tonic to the Indians, kinda fast.
there’s no way to know who’s the fastest .. u can just know how fast u urself are and then hope thats gud enuf ..
and Alphabay said they were the fastest out there
If you trade on prices nobody else wants to trade on it looks like you are the fastest….
when did alphabay say they were fastest ?!
Tuesday, 2 September at 11:00. Who gives a shit! Or you have news to share otherwise shut up!
i heard optiver has the fastest guns in the market
Guys, comeone, it’s not that difficult.
For starters, they got a nice discounted tradebook from VDM. That’s looking good…
Then the participants: The newly-dad Egbert. Trading wit of zero. The Castelyn brothers: Robby was bankrupt before VDM gave him a break (Hans Kroon). His ‘trackrecord’: his trading company went seriously bust, went to Spain (Ibiza), did some real estate with his last money, that went wrong, did some daytrading, went wrong too, then went for VDM and got a job from half-demented Hans Kroon. His brother, the former soccer pro was very much broke too, needed the easy VDM cash and got a job via Hans too. Those beursbengels help eachother… as long as it’s not their money anyway.
Rick Smit had also a string of bankrupt ideas and a bust trading company and hided in Spain too. Dis some real estate too by the way and was seriously, seriously broke. Got a break by “Santa” Hans too when the previous risk manager was sacked.
Then VDM went bust. The Castelyns and Mr. Smit could not even scrape for a penny but, in true VDM fashion, Egbert was very impressed by their ‘trading knowledge’. Call him a good judge on this 😉
The big idea was to use the VDM money to start their own ‘really succesfull trading firm’. Got memberships to many exchanges, got three expensive trading software suites, relatively high salaries so the starting costs accumulated to over 200k euros per month. Then the VDM book was traded out very poorly (in true VDM fashion) so the only thing left was a net loss of close to 300k by September. The only thing to do was kill the company, sell the remains to compensate the loss and… retire. That is, only Egghead can afford that since he and Onno got their share of the sale of Curvalue to VDM.
And yes, Richard lives in the UK these days and is starting a spreadbetting company.
Bye for now.
i’ll call lot of bs in last part .. there cant be three trading softwares .. possibly ORC and maybe another one .. there cant possibly be a third one .. and these various software would all have 2-3 months of free trial subscription in alphabay’s sum total of 6 months trading existence .. with partners not drawing a salary, the remaining 10 people cudn’t have drawn out more than 50k a month .. office rental not much i’m sure .. rest of the stuff was stolen from VDM .. they did get big ass TV right before they died .. in true VDM style ..
VDM book was rather flat .. they lost 0.5mil/1mil max trading out of that .. Hans Corsten actually made them some good money off better VDM positions as he is experienced in handling such illiquid stuff ..
down 300k by sep .. thats just all bs .. at best a rumour set purposefully to distract from what really happened, which was monetising the 3.5 mil discount stolen from VDM shareholders ..
“Tibra are the fastest in the market”
Any software named after a sportscar is bound to be fast.
whats the name of their software ?
Tibra’s software is called Reflex.
Don’t know any sportscar called that.
Taking concept cars to a new level — one that combines a diesel engine, electric motor and solar panels — Ford unveiled its Reflex sportscar this week at the North American Auto Show in Detroit.
Sorry. Got it confused with F1. Easy mistake to make.
?? This week is the screen event in Amsterdam. Is it worth going to?
What i have heard is that tibras software is not that fast: More than 70 us wire to wire roundtrip.
I guess its more based on infrastructure: short dark fibre and 10 or 100 Gig Infrastructure.
Screen event is nice if you consider overpriced buggy off the shelf software
weet iemand wat de stand van zaken is in VDM-zaak/onderzoek bij de ondernemingkamer?
Ja, hoe staat het met het onderzoek? Ik ben nog niet benaderd maar heb heel wat te vertellen.
Iedereen die wat te vertellen heeft inzake VDM:
Allen en Overy is zaakvoerder namens de OK.
contactgegevens:
Judith Smaling
Advocaat
Allen & Overy LLP
http://www.allenovery.com
Apollolaan 15
1077 AB Amsterdam
Postbus 75440
1077 AK Amsterdam
Direct 020 674 1115
Tel 020 674 1000
Fax 020 674 1816
Optiehuis All Options maakt draai
21 september 2010, 7:15 uur | FD.nl
Door: Saskia Jonker
All Options heeft maandag op het laatste moment een strategiewijziging ingetrokken. Vrijdag kondigde het optiehuis aan dat het genoodzaakt is drastisch van koers te veranderen. ‘Marketmaking is dead’, zei een woordvoerder.
Topman Allard Jakobs zou gisteren meer uitleggen, maar zette onverwachts een streep door de persconferentie. Optiehuizen hebben het moeilijk door lage omzetten op de beurs.
‘Er zit een kern van waarheid in’, zegt werknemer van een concurrent over het statement van All Options dat marketmaking ‘dood’ is. ‘Het is een moeilijk vak met kleine marges’, beaamt directeur Rob Defares van optiehuis IMC. Bovendien zijn de marktomstandigheden voor handelshuizen nu erg lastig, zo wordt algemeen gesteld.
Bied- en laatkoersen op aandelen en opties
Effectenhuizen moeten op de beurs constant bied- en laatkoersen op aandelen en opties afgeven. Dat betekent dat beleggers altijd kunnen kopen en verkopen. De optiehuizen verdienen aan het verschil tussen de bied- en de laatkoers, de spread genoemd.
Door de snelle elektronische handel worden die spreads echter steeds krapper. Daardoor zijn er hogere volumes nodig om dezelfde omzet te genereren. Maar die volumes blijven dit jaar achter. Ook de volatiliteit op de beurzen valt tegen. Volatiliteit is een deel van de optieprijs en bepaalt dus een deel van de winst. Tegelijkertijd investeren optiehuizen flink in technologie.
Winst Optiver gekelderd
Amsterdams grootste optiehuis Optiver zag de winst hierdoor al kelderen. Vorige week werd bovendien bekend dat Alphabay Capital, een spin-off van het failliete handelshuis Van der Moolen, de stekker eruit trekt. Het lukt het bedrijf niet om in de huidige markt structureel geld te verdienen.
Het zou dan ook niet vreemd zijn als All Options zijn strategie wijzigt. De woordvoerder van het bedrijf kon maandag niet aangeven of dat het geval is.
Citadel en Getco
Een ingewijde ziet dat marketmakers zich meer diversifiëren. Amerikaanse partijen als Citadel en Getco investeren in handelsplatformen om handel zeker te stellen. Optiver heeft daarom platform TOM opgezet. Het huis ziet ook mogelijkheden in handel die nu niet via beurzen plaatsvindt.
I proudly present the new business model for All Options – growth for the future. This will solidify our position as the leading (dead) market maker.
http://www.alloptions.com/
of liquidity provider: spa verkopen
Is Jack sleeping? What’s happening at AO?
Who will bid for the AO positions?
but this time he needs a bigger discount
How many people are involved in market making at AO compared to all the other trading strategies?
Does anyone one of you maggots have the phonenumber of RDD? I need some advice, I also have a lot of annoying people on my back.
who gives a fk .. all the biz are undergoing restr or already done quite bit in last 2 years.. mkt making is no different .. get over it ..
All Options = All Over = All Fcuked
Is it really that bad at all options or are there just opportunities for young people? On their website they say they are looking for young talent, which is me. Is this a good time to apply?
Thanks, newbie91
Herinneren jullie nog de ingezonden brief in FD van 9 april?? Het aftellen is begonnen. Groetjes aan Allard.
Zwaar weer treft vooral de grotere optiehuizen.
(…)
Grote handelshuizen zijn volledig afhankelijk van een grote orderstroom, die zij verwerken met minieme marges maar in grote aantallen, mogelijk gemaakt door razendsnelle ICT. Zonder handelsstroom valt er echter niets te handelen, maar de enorme kosten van de infrastructuur lopen gewoon door. In het FD-artikel staat dat op iedere handelaar twee ICT-ers nodig zijn. Daarnaast zijn er omvangrijke kostenposten voor HR, management, opleiding, huisvesting en andere overhead.
De optiehuizen bevinden zich in zwaar weer en dat is met name problematisch voor de grote partijen. Ik verwacht dat we in 2010 al afscheid kunnen nemen van minimaal één van hen.
Spuitje, aka The Visionair.
Maar goed, je had geen ongelijk.
beetje voorbarig denk ik, om nu al je gelijk te willen halen.
we hebben (nog) geen idee wat er vandaag allemaal bij All Options is besproken/besloten.
Ah, dus AJ heeft zijn business gewoon vergokt door op de ondergang van Calimero te wedden. Nu komt de aap uit de mouw.
“Nee, ik zet mijn geld erop dat Calimero dit jaar de handdoek in de ring gooit. All in.”
waarom ben ik weg gehaald??
Ook de eerste en de laatste keer dat ik hier wat neerzet.
@dave
Your comment was fine, but you reacted on a deleted comment (someone fake using the name of a Calimero trader)
okay I understand. Thanx for the reaction.
fk moderator .. he keeps deleting comments .. grow up will ya ..
didn’t liquid drop an absolute bucketload on bp in london?
useless outfit with monkeys running it. they won’t last, their machines can’t compete.
stop ranting and give us some facts if u know of any ..
don’t know the exact number, 10 million euro??? something in that vicinity. it was big anyway talking to ex liquid boys.
oh, and their machines are def the slowest in the market. not sure what their ppl in IT do all day.
10 mn on bp is not very very huge .. its easily possible with what happened with bp .. but u need a bad trader to get to 10 mil loss.. first day, they wud have been 1 mil down but then bad traders never hack and the loss goes from 1 mil to 10mil .. thank god for bad traders ..
liquid is gambling now big time on higher dividends, specially in swiss banks, they mark their theoretical net liq through the roof, what a joke, i keep telling management but nobody seems to listen,anyway div announcements will be soon than this whole cover-up will end
its not liquid, its a trader or two working in liquid who are marking the fucking position .. even the trading manager doesnt listen to u ??! is that dr or something from Saen trading .. no wonder ..
just keep firm record/emails and after the losses are booked, trader shud be taken care of and risk manager, thats u, wud be find..
so, the position is still there? surely u tell chris siepman and he’ll be all over it?
they have a horrible model for trading single stocks, all their software is based on trading indexes. u get a decent move, and ur parameters get all screwed up on liquids models.
i know a guy who works there he said they dont even trade bp. 10m eur sounds like bs
maybe it is bs, but a rumour like that doesn’t come from nowhere. speaking to guys at liquid, imc and tibra and that’s wat they heard too.
Liquid really lost on BP. Heard it too from a Liquid trader. Btw, read the comments here for the same rumour:
http://www.amsterdamtrader.com/2010/06/imc-founder-schelvis-buys-a-new-car.html
As long as its all posted by anonymice without any references, I’m not taking it very seriously.
Anonymous1: I heard X lost 10M on Y
Anonymous2: I heard that too
Anonymous3: Somebody at X told me it’s actually 12M
A fact is born
What kind of reference are you looking for? An official statement from Liquid? A press release? Jack’s stamp of approval? Clearing output?