Optiver’s profits in free fall
Quote magazine and the comments over here have been a lot faster in reporting the free fall of Optiver’s profits. After a long series of steep rising profits, the company made a lousy 6.3 million EUR. To put it in perspective, that’s peanuts compared with 2008 (228m), 2007 (179) and also 2006 (99) and 2005 (41) were a lot better.
The profits are down the drain, but there’s still some serious revenue generated. 263 million compared to 710 million a year earlier. The heavy overhead is ruining the party. The revenue is broadly the same as in 2006, but this time the costs are 90 million heavier.
Although financially a wasted year, they have been growing in human capital. The year ended with 650 full time employees, up from 527 in 2008. On a steady basis they seem to be expanding with a staff of 100 people every year. I always assumed Kaemingk had a few times more programmers and IT staff than traders, but it turns out 2009 was the very first year with IT personnel outnumbering the traders.
Salaries higher, bonuses evaporated
Let’s combine the increasing head count and decreasing profits to more interesting figures. The average salary was 63.230 per year – or a decent 5.250 per month. A lot more than 2008, with an average salary of 53.500 (or 4.450 per month). This is excluding the limited expenses on social security costs, pension costs and of course excluding the bonus. A total sum of 17,4 million has been paid out, which translates into a tiny 27.000 average. Compare this with the average bonus over 2008 : 179.000. The partners are included in the headcount. Unsure whether or not the board is included in the short term benefits. Looks like the average trader for Optiver didn’t pocket much last year.
Other small details. Investment in TOM has been less than a million, and Optiver is committed to investing in total 1.7 million. And well, the IT equipment is valued at 47 million. Sounds expensive. Maybe necessary when taking pride in trading on 40 exchanges. For those interested, here’s the full annual report. Comments, corrections and insights are more than welcome in the comments.
I don’t think I can or want to comment on this. Apologies.
Anything on incoming CFTC claims in the annual report?
They mention the CFTC in the Provisions section on page 47 or thereabouts, and their total provisions (for rent and many other things) is 13.3m.
On page 52 though, they list provisions of 2.2m?
I’m not an expert at reading financial statements, but I’d say that they’re vastly underestimating the cost of the CFTC case.
13.3 Mil may only be the lawyer fees.
* Which page is that bonus stuff on?
* And @Maca944 – @amsterdamtrader @maratom Interessante lectuur, ik zal er eens de tijd voor nemen. p&l komt toch door dividendbelastingclaim?
anyone?
so mako continue to be the masters of the universe, cleaning up again in 2009 and also in 2010.
i am based in the states and it is rumoured that optiver will be getting $50m+ fine. There is no argument over whether they are guilty or not, but just a case of how much is the fine. the US regulators will really make an example of Optiver, especially since they lied by denying it!
Mako cleaned up? what are their nrs for 09 and 10 (so far)?
surely its a joke if Optiver gets fined 50 million while Goldman only got fined 500 million…how did Mako do so well last year, thought it was tough for all MM firms?
Mako does a lot of arbitrage unlike traditional vanilla MM firms. Besides they are now held by the close brothers not David Segal. A lot of connections in London. Big Players Big Traders
Clarification/:
I dont mean to say anything bad against David Segel. I wish I could be as rich as him. But Close Brothers make a big difference with their networks.
It will be interesting to see the Tibra statement, their progress and how much they allocate as reserves for the Optiver case.
what is the latest on tibra v optiver?
https://www.comcourts.gov.au/file/Federal/P/NSD681/2009/actions
Directions hearing on the 22nd October.
Why does it look like this article is based in the above?
Winst Optiver fors gekelderd
28 juli 2010 | Het Financieele Dagblad
Door: Bos, J.;Geest, E. van der
Optiehuis blijft investeren in mensen en technologie ondanks winstval van 97%
Jeroen Bos en Ester van der Geest
Amsterdam
Handelshuis Optiver heeft vorig jaar bijna een kwart meer mensen in dienst genomen. Dit is opvallend, omdat het huis in 2009 nog een spectaculaire winstval beleefde. De nettowinst kelderde met 97,2% naar euro 6,3 mln. De aanwas bedroeg vooral IT’ers. Voor het eerst werken bij het handelshuis meer IT’ers dan handelaren.
‘Het jaar 2009 was teleurstellend voor ons’, zegt medebestuurder Jelle Elzinga in een toelichting op de jaarcijfers. Voor veel beleggers was het langzame herstel van de wereldeconomie vorig jaar een zegen. Maar de optiehandelaren zijn gebaat bij onzekerheid, grote koersuitslagen en hoge volumes. Van de handelsinkomsten van euro 710,6 mln in 2008 bleef een jaar later euro 263,7 mln over.
‘Wij waren ons ervan bewust dat 2008 een uitzonderlijk goed jaar was. Toch zijn we negatief verrast door de magere resultaten van vorig jaar’, zegt Elzinga. ‘Bij ons zijn de gevolgen van de crisis een jaar later aangekomen.’
In 2009 zag Optiver zijn cashpositie met 35% krimpen tot euro 261,1 mln. Elzinga: ‘Daarmee zijn we natuurlijk nog steeds ruim gekapitaliseerd.’ Maar cash is van cruciaal belang voor een handelshuis. Het is de basis voor kredietlijnen die ze nodig hebben van het clearinghuis dat garant staat voor de transacties waarin het handelshuis tegenpartij is. Hoe meer geld, hoe meer ze kunnen profiteren van volatiele koersen.
Het handelshuis wil geen voorschot nemen op de resultaten van 2010. Wel laat Europees directeur Hans Pieterse zich ontvallen dat de afgelopen maand mei, toen de eurocrisis het hoogtepunt bereikte, de marktactiviteit en handelsvolumes sterk leken op die van in oktober 2008, toen Lehman ten val kwam. Hij wil niet zeggen in hoeverre het magere eerste kwartaal van 2010 in mei is goedgemaakt. Pieterse vreest slapende concurrenten hiermee wakker maken.
Optiver verdient zijn geld grotendeels door op grote schaal in te spelen op kleine onevenwichtigheden in de prijzen van aandelen en derivaten. Daarnaast zorgt het handelshuis voor liquiditeit in de markt door constant bied- en laatprijzen af te geven.
Met razendsnelle computers en slimme algoritmes proberen ze de concurrentie, die vooral komt van grote Amerikaanse partijen, voor te blijven. ‘Als je mee wilt blijven doen, zul je mee moeten in de ratrace van investeringen.’
In 2009 heeft Optiver fors geïnvesteerd in zogenoemde co-locaties, computers in fysieke nabijheid van beurzen wereldwijd. In de industrie van de razendsnelle schermenhandelaren zijn het de milliseconden die tellen.
Toch onderstreept Elzinga dat de handel mensenwerk blijft. ‘We zoeken nog altijd naar toptalent. Het gaat om de strategie en algoritmes waarmee de markt verslagen moet worden in een buitengewoon competitieve omgeving.’
Pieterse zegt dat Optiver extreem conservatief gefinancierd is. Winsten worden een jaar in huis gehouden voordat vennoten profiteren. Bij verliezen moeten partners ook daarin meedelen. Door de sterke liquiditeit van de organisatie kon Optiver in oktober 2008, na de val van Lehman, grote posities innemen. Pieterse: ‘Je zou kunnen zeggen dat we jarenlang te conservatief zijn geweest.’ Die Hollandse zuinigheid betaalde zich in 2008 uit.
Door de terugkerende rust op de markt in 2009 heeft Optiver zijn inkomsten zien kelderen
Copyright (c) 2010 Het Financieele Dagblad
how much did IMC and All Options make/lose in 2009?
david still owns 51% of mako actually but lives in LA financing movies
mako made net profits of $185mm in 2009 and positive approx $40mm this year
they also have a $1bn hedge fund (pelagus) which is up $25mm this year and made $200mm last year
You guys are crazy if you think that Optiver made alot of $$$ in 2008. Jane Street made nearly 2x as much with only 200 people and most of you have probably never heard of them!!!!!
what is jane street capital???? are they dutch?
Hahaha, Optiver made a lot € not $ you silly boy. And since the € is worth more then the $ who is laughing now!!!!!!!
I know only of that girl Jane working on the Street. She makes a lot of $ indeed, about 100 every hour. I also heard a vague rumour of Jane Street merging with Sesame Street with big bird on the board.
its true, janestreet made nearly 2 billion usd in 08
janestreet 2 billion… sold massive size…..
2b is more or less the correct number, but the vast majority was made on one trade and luck played a massive part in it. Was an ‘end of the world’ type of hedge
> zegt Elzinga. ‘Bij ons zijn de gevolgen van de crisis een jaar later aangekomen.’
Absoluut pretentieus
2 billion USD – wow, so at current exchange rates, factoring in inflation, that equals about 10 euros.
Hope they didn’t spend it all at once.
Really wonder if IMC, All Options and the others made money last year, but more important, I think 2010 will be a lot worse than 2009 for most firms. Volumes and margins are decreasing every day.
Bitches: you’re all picking over dead meat. AllOptions made -35M 2009, on course for -20M 2010. For real. Mako aint shit. Optiver in for a +100M fine. IMC aint doin shit. Tibra is fucked up, no new hires, limited bonuses 2010. y’all read it here. Eclipse? they shut down in Europe. Best option for you guys: find a real job. Word.
Word up! You is right, muthfucka. This shit is overrrrr….
I think Optiver might be in the most trouble of them all. Non-partners won’t be getting bonuses this year because they aren’t making any money, and partners know that any bonus they do get will be swallowed up by the CFTC.
Are any of the market makers still hiring as many people as they were two years ago? Maybe Optier are hiring more programmers to finally put traders out of a job!
getco and flow are hiring in singapore
Alah?
@ John, Optiver is doing fine this year, don’t worry about bonus..
I guess that the ones that are not doing fine are the ones that can only bitch about All Options,Optiver,IMC etc. .Boring bunch .
Optiver killed it in the month of April. Their eurostoxx desk is the most profitable MM desk in the whole of europe
Where are you guys getting financial reports for private companies in Holland ?
Reports are filed with the KvK / Chamber of commerce. But what are the issues here: Dutch market makers not making profits? 2009 has shaken up everyone – Optiver, IMC and All Options – they have all cut costs and changed their strategies and are, or in process of, diversifying. Don’t be stupid to believe they’re just going to do the same year in year out.
They have no reserves? Wrong, all 3 have deep pockets. None have made crippling losses. All are focusing on new technology. Yep, Optiver is investing in programmers – but that’s for TOM mainly. A long haul gamble. Across the board trading is increasingly tech driven. I foresee that in 5 years the industry will be mainly algo based with traders working wholesale / broker market.
Which company would I rather be with? Well, Optiver has some risks outstanding (court cases, etc) but if everything plays out with TOM, then that’s a major winner. IMC – quiet, but they are still recruiting and growing strongly. All Options – just need to figure out what they’re doing.
how do the dutch MMs compare with Jane street?
Jane Street currently has 2 bil + under management. They had their best year ever in 2008. Since their founding, they always used about 10% of revenue for insurance such as buying extremely out of the money puts on the S&P and counterparties along with CDS on counterparties. The purpose of the insurance was so that they could survive a meltdown of the financial markets. Turns out that their normal business wasn’t significantly impacted by the events of this year but their insurance still made them ridiculous amounts of money.
Strange strategy. Everyone knows that volatile markets are good for market makers. Better to sell some premium as a hedge in low volatile periods.
Jane Street pays much much much much more……
Word has it that Sesamestreet pays even more than Janestreet…
Mind you these profits that you see are after Bonuses are paid out.
Optiver pays 21 year old grads straight out of school a whopping salary that even bulge brackets dont offer in their second third year. The base itself is so high that the bonus is like a side of fries.
Great traders at Big firms get creamed and the shit complacent fat traders who wont even get to be tea boys elsewhere get overpaid.
I wonder what the Global MGMT team thinks about the ex General Counsel from the Chicago office (schwab) working at tribra now?
Jane st strategy of buying crash puts on their clearing firm as a business hedge is very sensible and i am surprised more dont follow them. Nice trading boys
“Strange strategy. Everyone knows that volatile markets are good for market makers. Better to sell some premium as a hedge in low volatile periods.”
whoever wrote this – you are missing the point
Interactive Brokers Q1 results – also down by over 100 million on 2009, which in turn was a bad year! Their revenues from market making have collapsed from what they were in 2008. Good news – they are seeing an increase, but it’s slow.
that Optiver salary package sounds good…real money…at Saen we were getting a big bag of peanuts or a playstation in the end of the year…great company it was…
August 2nd, 2010 who wrote this:
I wonder what the Global MGMT team thinks about the ex General Counsel from the Chicago office (schwab) working at tribra now?
Can you elaborate for those of us who dont understand this ?
Steven Schwab
Chief Compliance Officer and General Counsel at Tibra Trading America LLC
Location
Greater Chicago Area
Current
Chief Compliance Officer and General Counsel at Tibra Trading America LLC
Past
Associate Managing Director and General Counsel at Optiver US LLC
Associate at Winston & Strawn LLP
Associate at Katten Muchin Rosenman
boring … next topic please!
I’m with the Anonymous guy: why should we care if this guy works for Tibra now?
Because he was on the tapes when Optiver talked to the CFTC and he’s a lawyer. This is the most interesting on this site in a long time. Please elaborate.
He switched sides?
Yah – and if you actually read the transcript, you’ll know that Schwab says Sweet Fuck All. Bastiaan does all the talking, and that’s why he is the CFTC’s number one target, closely followed by Chris Dowson and Randal.
Like I said before – why should we care so much about Schwab?
Yawn…
Schwab is a genius. By not saying anything and letting Bastiaan talk himself into a hole, he probably saved himself.
One question that comes to mind is how can you be compliance officer, attorney and associate managing director? That’s like being president, house majority leader, and a supreme court justice.
Its a private company. you can be owner, managing director and head of operations. It does not matter.
Besides Tibra in America is small (growing)
Guys this is an interesting topic. Can we expand more…..
I bet the ones who find this Yawn and boring … dont want more info out..
Well ‘genius’ is somewhat exaggerated don’t you think so? It was smart but cowardly and uncommitted to keep silent.
How fast is Tibra growing in the US btw?
Guys, what else do you wanna know??? He got fired from Optiver US and now works at tibra, plain and simple. Next subject please!
The general counsel is the guy who makes traders sign outrageous non-competes and sues traders when they leave for better companies (Read more freedom than optiver).
Schwab goes to the one company that optiver is suing for infringement of intellectual property. This is the stuff that hollywood movies are made of.
If he was such a genius and wasn’t guilty then why was he terminated? Someone please elaborate on this.
Was he terminated ?
From the posted it seems he resigned ?
I’ve also heard that he left on his own terms
Quote: “Optiver killed it in the month of April. Their eurostoxx desk is the most profitable MM desk in the whole of europe”
Nope, that’s not true
guys this is really boring . Except for the frustrated extraders from Optiver maybe. Who cares about some general counsel who goes to work for a bunch of exOptiver traders that stole some software ?
Let me guess ; now someone starts about Van der Moolen . . . . .Boring bunch !
Rumor on the street is that Schwab was fired for violating the companies “Computer Usage” policy. Without knowing 100% certainty how he violated it, I won’t say how he “violated” it. Can someone with facts please elaborate on this?
Which are the profitable houses in Europe right now ?
looks like optiver stopped making money as soon as i left
liquid capital single stocks desk.
What happened to the Liquid capital Eurostoxx desk, weren’t they the biggest in Europe and weren’t they the most profitable (at least more profitable than their single stock desk)?
And regarding the: “Nope, that’s not true” comment. What is not true: 1) that Optiver killed it in April, or 2) that they are not the biggest in Europe, 3) both, 4) none of the above, 5) Different, namely….
Re:”This is the stuff that Hollywood movies are made of”.
I’m not sure but were you also a great fan Kevin Costner’s ‘Waterworld'(1995) or ‘Deception'(2008) with Hugh Jackman? Because then I understand your great ‘Hollywood’ excitement about this fairly uninteresting thing.
Btw, does a General Counsel-dude not have a non-compete? Or has this Schwab taken some time off before boarding Arbit?
Back on topic lets talk about VDM lol
Did AJ really finance Alphabay ? I can not believe it…..
Thats the irony of it. The guy who makes everyone sign one year non-competes shows up at Arbit 3 months after he leaves O.
“What happened to the Liquid capital Eurostoxx desk, weren’t they the biggest in Europe and weren’t they the most profitable (at least more profitable than their single stock desk)?
And regarding the: “Nope, that’s not true” comment. What is not true: 1) that Optiver killed it in April, or 2) that they are not the biggest in Europe, 3) both, 4) none of the above, 5) Different, namely….”
Well Optiver is the biggest with brokers, but for the rest, i sincerely doubt it.
mako number 1 by far
I highly doubt that any prop shops are making a profit this year.
If you haven’t made money this year, you simply don’t belong in the business. Are you forgetting the crisis across Europe in May and June?
liquid is still by far the biggest in the eurostoxx, way bigger than their SS desk
wie zit er achter alphabay?
Alphabay is an ex-VDM spin-off. And no AJ didn’t support it.
so AJ DID support it!
Hi guys,
A bit off-topic : What do you think about WEBB Traders?
Are they a good company to apply at for a trading position?
Any info’s about them are welcome.
Thanks
Allard did finance Alphabay, that is where Egbert got the money. somone mentioned they saw him come out of the AOI offices when vdm went *kaboom*
This is like google secretly financing Zygna.
guys how much did IMC, Liquid, Mako and AO make in 09?
and are any of these guys making cash in Asia?
2 out of 4
Why don’t you find out yourself , lazy bum ? And then what is it to
you how much they made ? Make some money for yourself !
Optiver had a lousy half year in 2010 but made a lot of money in the month of may when markets collapsed. Recent months have been bad because of low volumes again I presume
You presume so you don’t know . If you don’t know why don’t you keep you’re mouth shut . Boring anonymous nobody .
More and more partners at walking out the door at Optiver. I think close to fifteen partners in total have left this year. My advice, stay away.
Rats deserting a sinking ship.
Like I said before, no one there will get paid anything for the next two years because the CFTC fine will be bigger than their annual profit.
Waiting out the non-compete period and joining a competitor is the logical thing to do.
Screw the non compete. They won’t have the cash to go after anyone!
testing
Another spice to it all is that the legal counsel for Tibra in Oz recently resigned as well.
You guys are talking as if Optiver is going down which sounds fairly ridiculous. For the first time in years the results are not good and more than average partners are leaving; The reason seems obvious: the partners stayed longer than average in the past years to reap in the nice cash and do not see these huge bonuses coming in this or next year and that’s why it’s a good time to sit out their non-compete. I do not see the reason for writing that the company is a sinking ship. The guys who wrote that must have been those great traders working for these fantastic local shops/spin offs in Amsterdam which are making billions every year…
How does the general counsel violate a computer usage policy? Please elaborate on this.
All Options is unique in using team trading. This style of trading helps eliminate risk, improves results and engenders a close-knit culture.
I heard that the legal counsel for Optiver had sushi for lunch on Friday.
“I do not see the reason for writing that the company is a sinking ship.”
I think you made my point for me – the better than average partners are leaving in droves, which leaves the below average traders left. I don’t think Optiver is at a stage where it can just flick the switch on a machine to make money – they still need good traders to make money.
All options is indeed unique in team trading, the only problem is they can’t keep a team.
Will Optiver go bankrupt because of the cftc fine?
If you see what happened to Goldman, you know the answer
“Will Optiver go bankrupt because of the cftc fine?”
No, they are quite well capitalised. The fine will mean they will have to drop some of their more capital intensive strategies with lower ROI, but it is certainly not going to be big enough for them to be forced out of trading altogether.
The point I was trying to make is that the longer this CFTC case goes on, combined with the size of the fine means that existing talent will move on (if they haven’t already), and they will have a lot of trouble attracting new talent.
Not Optiver: “MORE than average partners are leaving”
John: “I think you made my point for me – the BETTER than average partners are leaving”
The REAL point John made here is that he lacks some basic reading skills…
“I think you made my point for me – the better than average partners are leaving in droves, which leaves the below average traders left. I don’t think Optiver is at a stage where it can just flick the switch on a machine to make money – they still need good traders to make money.”
I think “more than average partner” in the previous post refers to the number instead of quality. Don’t see how you got the conclusion traders that are left are below average. And yes, machines will eventually replace most of the traders. That’s just the trend. Will see when the results are allowed to be published.
How stable is the management team in Chicago? Is Bastiaan still the MD with the pending CFTC case?
Bastiaan “left” Optiver just after he was charged by the CFTC. Purely coincidental I’m sure 😛
So by “more than average partners”, you meant “more than the usual number of partners”? I still think my point is valid in either case.
how much profit does duyfken make, more than flow trader?
Bastiaan from the CFTC tapes:
“Just trying to provide liquidity in the TAS”
LOL
Duyfken’s year-report of 1606 says they made 10 gold bars and 1500 Dutch florins, some boxes of pepper and 14 slaves: http://www.duyfken.com/
Duyfken had great technology and no need for massive HR depts. V successful with graduate recruitment
http://www.cnbc.com/id/38734171
$12m fine from CFTC for pushing oil futures thru $100 the first time
any read through for optiver?
I’d expect Optiver to face a fine somewhere in th 50-100 mil range. Criminal charges against the big three(Van Kempen, Dowson, Meijer) will probably follow.
guy , please get a life ! Stop this stupid Optiver bashing .You know nothing so shut up .Or come with some real info .If not go and watch Sesame street .Boring twit
I’ve heard rumors of 75mil. Can someone please elaborate more on the general counsel changing sides and going to tibra, this is the most fascinating part of the whole story. I agree with the comment “this is the stuff hollywood movies are made of”
The Optiver vs Tibra case is being run in Sydney courts, presumably by legal counsels at the respective Sydney offices of Optiver and Tibra.
According to his LinkedIn page, this Schwab guy is still in Chicago. What makes you guys think he has anything to do with the case?
I don’t think they are refering to the case with tibra but rather the case dealing with the CFTC investigation. Schwab was the general counsel during the phone calls where the CEO made false statments to the NyMEX investigators.
Surely schwab violated his non compete. The only other psooibikity is that he didn’t sign one himself, Whig I highly doubt.
“Schwab goes to the one company that optiver is suing for infringement of intellectual property. This is the stuff that hollywood movies are made of.”
Sounds to me like he was referring to Optiver vs Tibra.
So the plot so far consists of a guy that:
1. Most likely has had nothing to do with the Optiver vs Tibra case
2. Said absolutely nothing in the Nymex conference call
3. Was possibly fired for violating “Computer Usage” policy (downloading MP3s? Porn? Sending personal emails?), or possibly left of his own accord!
4. Possibly violated his non-compete, or possibly sat out what was required of him (which sounds more likely given he was brave/silly enough to put actual dates on his LinkedIn profile). In any case, you can’t compare his non-compete period to that of an average trader.
BOX OFFICE FLOP!!!
You guys need to come up with some real stories instead of this bullshit innuendo.
more fines handed out by CFTC – Optiver better start provisioning a larger number in their accounts
By Vivek Shankar
Aug. 19 (Bloomberg) — Christopher Pia, a former trader at
Louis Bacon’s Moore Capital Management LLC, paid a $25 million
fine to settle a civil complaint filed by the U.S. Commodity
Futures Trading Commission alleging he manipulated platinum
prices, the Wall Street Journal reported, citing an unidentified
person close to the situation.
Pia, who now runs Pia Capital Management LLC, didn’t admit
or deny wrongdoing, according the Journal. An unidentified
spokesman for Pia declined to comment, the newspaper said.
Pia didn’t immediately respond to a message from Bloomberg
News left on his office phone after business hours.
Schwab has nothing to do with the Optiver vs Tibra case you idiots. You think Optiver has their internal general counsel who is also the cheif risk officer dedicate his time to the lawsuit? Hell no! They hire an outside legal team to handle that.
There is no better way to say “fuck you” to an ex employer than join it’s arch enemy,Scheab is my fucking idol.
Optiver has deep pockets. The fine will not affect them financially
It may affect their reputation in the market however.
Optiver’s total equity according to their report is 394m EUR (which is 500m USD).
A fine of 100m USD or more is certainly going to affect their trading, particularly if some of their more capital intensive strategies reach “abnormal” levels.
If, as you say, 100m USD doesn’t affect them financially, then I would suggest they are vastly over-capitalized and should consider returning some cash to shareholders.
It could of course be the case that they are keeping a large capital buffer specifically to pay the fine? No mention of it in the report though.
This “discussion” is getting really boring .Ofcourse Optiver can pay the fine and ofcourse it won’t affect their trading .And even if it does who cares ? And who cares if this Schwab guy joins another firm ?If there are 500 people working at Optiver it really isn’t a surprise that some leave for competitors . If you don’t know what you’re talking about then keep your mouth shut . But please stop this sesamestreet whining .
A trading firm in Chicago is the center of investigation for oil prices mayhem.
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE67O2QQ20100825
Schwab, like charles schwab?
Yes, one and the very same. Charles Schwab now works for Tibra. It’s a small world after all.
Anyone know the status of Dowson? Is he still working for Optiver US?
how do u mean AJ finance Alphabay ? they stole 3mil .. that was the initial financing .. AJ might have given temporary bridge loan but probably collateral backed and at good lending rate .. he certainly wudnt risk good money with Alphabay’s future .. all option is enuf of a gamble with his own money ..
alphabay got funds from his old VDM friend who runs his own company for dividend arbitrage .. another of their legal scams ..
who’s that ‘old VDM friend’??
That would be Frank Vogel, of course, Egbert’s partner in crime in the VDM “global tax arbitrage” (cough).
My God, is Frank still not in sight of de Belastingdienst/F.I.O.D???
man private shareholders of van der moolen havent gone after alphabay .. why do u think a government employee be bothered abt going after Frank ..
webb traders are hiring grad >? nice .. do they pay salary or is it ‘unpaid learning internship’
Optiver partners are leaving as Optiver holdings are bidding bit too high for the leaving partner’s shares .. i think if they had to offload their shares amongst the remaining shareholders, they might be discouraged to leave till a decent bid comes back ..
http://www.gsfsam.com/Products.aspx
is this for real : D
boy i wish i was this smart .. inventing money off thin air ..
[…] the machinery is having more severe problems at the moment. Just like Optiver the profits collapsed, down 97% to just 3,9 million dollar in the last quarter. Chairman and […]
Chris Dowson no longer works for Optiver for some time now
Does anyone know where Chris Dowson is these days?
nov 4 – wrong
nov 24 – yes
“Does anyone know where Chris Dowson is these days?”
Why? Does he owe you some money? Or are you a CFTC investigator?
Dowson is on the run from the law.
wat, on his speed boat ?
banging his own close
Bhandari said “F**k the Dutch”
So there you have it, boys!
Bhandari can suck my HDC (Hard Dutch Cock).
Thief!
Gay!
solid!
you mean SHDC? Small hard dutch cock
jealous prick
never jealous on THIEVES
Tibra have pulled out of making prices for brokers in euro single stock options today. MiTi has blown it again.
what is Erik Baanstra going to do then?
miTi?
I actually used to date him….and was trying to get in touch with him. Suppose he’s still in some trouble, eh?
[…] Tibra is always a little different from the other major market makers. First of all, they represent the only significant Australian market maker – and second they have another book year for their yearly report. Their trading year ends on the 30th of June, which makes it slightly difficult to compare them with their peers. Over the year 2008/2009 Tibra performed quite well, but they had the benefit of the turbulent trading period of the second half of 2008. The last report over 2009/2010 files a drop in the net profit with 68% to EUR 18 million. That’s quite reasonable compared with the performance of their former friends at Optiver. […]
how strange?! I added a comment yesterday eve which looks to have been deleted! hmmm. So to repeat myself – Dowson is in Sydney being cared for and his parents are living in Ilkley, England. So I hear…
okay ..
Want to know where Christopher Dowson is ehm? He has shacked up with a fashion blogger named Rumi Neely of Fashion Toast since 2013 and is living in LA with her. Rumi treats him like a God and said in an interview he “works in finance” yeesh. Chris Dowson is indicted and banned from US trading since 2012 for 8 years , yet he is still loaded and somehow got a visa??? His instagram is easy to find and all he does is take vacations with Rumi Neely and fund her expensive lifestyle, he bought them a hollywood house and she barely works on her Fashiontoast blog any more. Guess he got away with his stolen money. He paid for her Are You Am I clothing line. Its all documented on Chris Dowson’s instagram and Rumi’s