Sinking ship Van Der Moolen
However, the company used to be a very insignificant player in the market after the turn of the last century. The attention may be a little bit too much for a tiny small-cap. After all, it hasn’t got many employees, clients or suppliers. Just a history and an exchange listing.
When all evening newspapers open with the news of VDM’s demise, there isn’t much room for Amsterdamtrader.com for many new valuable insights.
Just three strange little things.
2. If the company is going down because of lousy management (as has been reported), there could be a case for legal action against them. The former ceo Richard den Drijver won’t win the popularity contest in the ranks of the traders. The fact the supervisory board decided the firm isn’t going to meet it’s short term obligations shortly after getting rid of the one-man-board indicates there’s something really wrong.
At least there’s one positive sign. The company managed to keep a secret. The share price was even going up in the week before the announcement.
Sad. A lot of work to do for Hoyle..
So are the clearers still letting VDM guys trade? Seems like letting them trade is dangerous, but not letting them trade or hedge option portfolio positions is also dangerous. Would anyone still OTC with them?
Anyone ever checked where the shares were purchased ? Den Drijver initially got paid in shares when he had his company taken over by VDM…
You mean "when" instead of "where" I guess. Believe last year, at a level of 4 or 5 euro. According to Bloomberg, he still owns 4,5 million shares.
No, I did mean where, as in who sold them. But I guess Den Drijver wasn't the seller then.
most of his shares are managed by his family fundation 🙂 those beautyfull tax issues…
so is he really still sitting on those ?
He's a smooth criminal. He will cover his tracks if he needs to.
As is Hans Kroon. I wonder why he is still a hero in the media
you will see some serious court action and people being forced to repay bonuses. what a train wreck. who is next… my money is on all options going under!
why should the traders be forced to repay bonuses? they havent done anything wrong it sounds like the management have everything to answer for
if bonuses were paid in the last 2/3 months and the business was insolvent at the time, they will have to be repaid
THe company wasn't declared insolvent until today so they keep their bonuses. But if they were trading while knowing they were technically insolvent then it's prison for the director(s). If a company like VDM can do such a thing for 2 or 3 months then this makes a mockery out of the laws and regulatory bodies of the Netherlands.
I meant yesterday
On All Options you cant buy any puts, but on VDM you could have bought some puts, which at the moment would have paid off quite well!!!!
Why is All Options such a bad company then? I have heard they have not made much this year but is that a reason to go bankrupt right away?
of course vdm could have technically been insolvent 2/3 months ago. its just a case of digging through the accounts
how is optiver and other market makers doing ? Is it worth buying puts there as well ?
if possible..
The problems at VDM don't have much to do with trading. Just throwing away money by management will kill any company.
Dude, VDM-USA is losing money……..has been for a while……with the CEO here (Schaffer)cooking the books…..
I am on vacation looking for a job!!!!
Dude,
VDM-USA is trading while knowing they are technically insolvent that is prison for the director(s). If a company like VDM can do such a thing for 2 or 3 months then this makes a mockery out of the laws and regulatory bodies of the USA.
Where is the SEC?
the SEC is still working out how much to fine optiver for price fixing in the crude close – let me tell you it will be 50m dollars at least.
buying puts in optiver?????…..there are too many people in this blog that they do not have a clue about trading!!!!
VDM will have a change to survive they have good traders in Amsterdam, Koln and Zug that are the most profitable units of the company…USA is shit stupid traders loosing money. The 3 units Amsterdam, koln and Zug made a lot of money last year ….only Richard Den Drijven did everything wrong. The second thing is the Holding which is to expensive this is also because of the stock listing in Amsterdam this holding is to . But the 3 profitable units can survive and make the company profitable again in the next coming years. The stories that are in the news that VDM is having bad traders who cannot make money is bullshit ! ….it was only the arrogant managment
with big salaries who did everything wrong…..
Assuming Amsterdam, Koln and Zug had/have good traders, will they stay with VDM? Some traders have already left the company. It also looks very difficult to me for good traders to keep being motivated.
Maybe the good traders have to put their heads together and start a new trading company.
I work there at VDM.
Everybody likes Peter Zwart. He is honest.
Kroon & den Drijver are not honest.
'buying optiver puts'..actually i was joking and wanted to see some funny replies….already got one 🙂
amsterdam was not making money for a year evryone knows that, zug and koln made some but was after bonus not really profitable, actually after salary and bonus the company made nothing, business model is broken in many ways, cannot be compared with optiver or IMC, but can be compared with all options, difference is that all options has huge cash balance to sit on.
The guys in London were the money makers for the VdM last year, how could the management let them even leave !!??
by not paying the bonus % that was in the contract?
the contract renegotiations were what forced the london guys out, completely moved the goalposts on them when they should have done their best to keep them, similar story to the guys that have left in Amsterdam… shows the level of idiocy and arrogance of VDM management…the company should have been taken private years ago anyway, no trading firm should be listed given the nature of the business and the fact that the shareholders get a miserable return even in good years…having said that it would have probably gone bust anyway with the morons who were in charge!
It is sad to see a 100 year old trading firm going down.
It is fasinating to see that Richard den Drijver and his advisor Hans Kroon were able to burn over a € 100 mln in free cash, which was in the company available, in less then 2 years, in the US people go to jail for this.
It is interesting to see what the next steps of the dutch regulator will be?
You cannot buy optiver puts, optiver is not listing on the amsterdam stock exchange.
I don't think VDM will survive as almost all the good traders have leaved the company. The traders are the engine of a trading company. Now they have leaved, VDM will not make money…
It's not sad. Fuck'em
vdm never had good traders from the floor days until now. i dont think they will be the last one to go under either
Shame on them!!you're right fuck'em..Richard den Drijver and Hans Kroon spent shareholders money like water on personal pleasures like; renting private jets to go to footbal matches in Madrid and GP Monaco..shame on them using shareholders money and distroiing the company!!
…charming Hans!
…shareholder money is not my money..
get ready for prison
but he stopped paying lunch for employees in an office as his one and only idea to cut costs… -)
lunch wont be so good in prison
Dude,
VDM-USA still trading and is not funded!!!
Who will go to jail for that, Schaffer?
Were is the SEC?
VDM-USA lost 3 Mil las quater!!!
first learn to share,if you cannot share you will never learn to multiple
Guys, what did driver or kroon wrong?
I mean driver is still the biggest shareholder
so legally- why should these guys go to prison?
i guess they went bust because of the tax arb
they must have lost 40mio
it was drivers idea to go fully into div arb
and he fucked up the whole company
if vdm is an affiliated business, it will have to close – give it 2 weeks for creditors to be confimed
Dude,
VDM-USA is closing down, accounts frozen….
Schaffer being investigated by the SEC…
VDM-USA have no chinesse wall between Market Maker traders and proprietary traders….SEC investigating….
The only way to save money for VDM-USA is NO to trade!!!!
Who is Koop in VDM-USA?
is he VDM-USA CEO?
investigated by SEC?
Richard den Drijver can not be founded?
police looking for him!!!!
"What did Den Drijver and Kroon wrong?"
Ruining a company by spending a lot on own trips with hired jets to Real Madrid – Barcelona, Monaco grandprix. Full paid by the company. This happened in 2009!
Being corrupt and giving money to his own enterprises and family. That kind of stuff. Hope they bring them both down to court.
He's probably on the boat together with Mr. Kroon.. looking for a save destination ;).
PRIVET JET to barcelona, monaco gp?
That is nonsense?
How do you know that?
Is Police looking for him?
That sounds like serious bullshit
how much money have these guys still left?
driiver and kroon?
is kroon also a crook?
Police is not (yet) looking for him I think. Trips with company money to Madrid and Monaco by a rented private jet : ask any VDM employee, they will confirm it.
but he might have paid it out of his pocket?
maybe the supervisory board was on the same plane
what do you think?
Why in the hell should police look for him?
is just nuts
you guys are VDM employees and freaking out here
Why do you think Kroon did not join the board, "for personal reasons"? Think again.
yeah but at this stage it was not making sense
the company was insolvent allready
the question is if kroon partnered with driiver
and now if they will face some lawsuits
etc..
i would doubt but possible
missmanagement if you own most of the shares?
strange
did these guys steal some money?
2digits numbers?
kroon bought curvalue of driiver no?
was that fakE?
vdm insiders- please explain
i thought that us activites were shut down?
does the company still face legal issues in us?
it matters not that Drijver was biggest shareholder, this will not save him from being investigated… look at Ken Lay, Jeff Skilling & Bernie Ebbers all major shareholders in the companies they ran into the ground and where did they all end up??? JAIL
this whole thing is still a mistery
something is dodgie here
how can these guys drop out 2 weeks before insolvency?
that makes no sense
how could these shares been traded at 1 for such a long time- people lost serious amounts of money here
who sold shares at these levels?
is like a hollywood movie
i hope we know what happened soon
the trips they made to Monaco and Mardrid did cost over 250000 euros, people in the company say. And this was not the only extraordinary thing they did.
everything at VdM costed 3xnormal price…
wonder why
If a company trades or does business while the directors know it is technically insolvant then those directors will face criminal proceedings even if they are the largest shareholders or not. It does not matter even if they own all the shares. The reason for this is that they are putting in danger their counterparties and suppliers and creditors who will not get their money back, e.g the clearer, the software suppliers, the exchanges, any otc or retail counterparties.
Remember guys, credit risk lies with the option buyer!
http://www.fd.nl/artikel/12263097/oud-topman-moolen-verkoopt-belang (sold shares on Tuesday)
"Guys, what did driver or kroon wrong?
I mean driver is still the biggest shareholder"
Den Drijver sold all of his shares from September 2008 til now (not all last Tuesday). He was the only profiteer of the share buyback program!
Op AFM site:
Datum meldingsplicht: 11 aug 09
Meldingsplichtige: RDD Family Foundation
Uitgevende instelling: Van der Moolen Holding N.V.
oh my god
looks like den driver sold the shares to van der moolen within the last year
that would put him in jail
sold all ?
regarding credit lines
will there be a clearer affected?
is it gonna be fortis?
i think he stepped out to sell his shares
because he then would not have to disclosure the sale anymore
so what driver did is to sell
his shares at prices around 1
still better than keeping those in pocket…
KBC is clearing VdM
trips to monaco madrid over 250k?
i just read that they paid out 37million of bonus
did kroon and driver get huge bonuses?
maybe out of the div arb that finally did not work out
250k? sure – private jets are expensive
bonuses were paid to traders, management etc… as usual in trading
http://www.quotenet.nl/service/nieuwsbrief/rc_aanmelden_nieuwsbrief.php
Do not forget to VOTE for Richard, the crook! (POLL on the right side)
Sorry, this the correct link:
http://www.quotenet.nl/biz/richard_den_drijver_pakt_zijn_verlies_en_verlaat_de_quote_50.php
http://translate.google.de/translate?hl=de&sl=nl&tl=en&u=http://www.quotenet.nl/biz/richard_den_drijver_pakt_zijn_verlies_en_verlaat_de_quote_50.php
VOTE!
I heard a story that Frank Vogel, the guy who was in bed with Den Drijver through their tax arbitrage vehicle GSFS collected EUR 10+ Million. Is he gonna get away with that?
the google translator says 'Richard den drijver arrested' from the link above…this correct?
no, not arrested.
not arrested, bad translation. It says he's taken a loss in net worth and will be drop out of the quote 500 list, Dutch version of Fortune 500 list
damn it!!! that would have been pretty funny!!!
The Mouse is now most certainly the Monkey!!!
Ja for sure!
What does that mean?
Is London still trading?
Hello
I was wondering if anyone can shed some more light on these issues for me. I work for GT and am investigating the potential liquidation and creditor claims involved in VDM. Can any VDM past employees explain a little more on what social expenditure senior management and board members of VDM have been seen to do for the period Jan 09 until the present time. Your assistance with this matter is appreciated.
Ultimately, it all comes down to the fruit and the pot. Phillip gets the last laugh…….
He dude… i heard that den Driver in 08 rented an appartment in New York of $35,000 a month..= $420,000 a year…and he never stayed there!!…talking about a BIG spender!!!
Who or what is GT?
unbelievable…
can somebody confirm this, or is it gonna stay gossip?
Grant Thornton Accountants
Grant Thornton can't ask on a forum to get a 'better understanding' of the personal books of the senior management. They can take a look in the books of VDM, so they can see all the expenditures of SM. If the costs are not clear(so Senior Management of VDM is suspect), they have to stop the investigation and get out of the building. The KLPD must be informed etc. etc. If it is not in the books of VDM, it must be personal expenditures and with the salaries these big boys get annually, it's no wonder why these guys can spend so much ..
dudes..Hans Kroon was since 07 (read Telegraaf april 07) den Driver personal "advisor" and later became boardmember..so he must know that Driver was cooking the books? Or did Kroon advised him on that?
was the appartment paid by the company or him personally?
appartment was paid by VDM (which means in this case VDM shareholders)
seems to be quiet now
is there any new stuff in the dutch media?
anything that explains this supernova?
will kroon or driver get into serious problems?
the amount of gossip on vdm on this website, i can see why grant thornton are fishing for info on here
but anyone knows a lot of it is true ..
Total salary 2007
R.E. den Drijver (Chairman) € 888,033
Nett loss VDM € 4,5 million (anual report)
Total salary 2008
R.E. den Drijver (Chairman) € 489,346
Net loss €15.5 million
nice… very nice…
100!
appreciations to Trader Jack for hosting this new popular web-site.
Wow, he really did add value to the company!!! What a business man!
Den Drijver stayed in the Meridien in NY while he was in the states the price for the room was something like 3000 dollars per day and he was there for months !
insane
"shareholder money is not my money" – one of richard`s most famous quotes while visiting one of the best branches (cologne) once(!!) in 3 years…!
sick- what will happen to the cologne branch?
who is running that branch?
Den Driver paid Hans Kroon € 30.000 a month for 14 months,as “advisor“ while he was only ONE day per month in the Amsterdam office…is that he calls helping his VDM baby??
the holding wants to sell profitable branches – its said in the last news
cologne and zug still profitable, and all best traders still there, as i`ve heard, waiting for a buyer
time is ticking away.any buyer on the way next week?
what is the goal of buying this company??? even the profitable units? what do you want to buy??? The only asset you can buy are traders! In this case the buyer would have to sign new 2-3 years contracts with all the traders, that would be the only solution I can imagine… but who is going to sign this kind of contract?
Imo: no chance for vdm!
what is the goal of buying this company??? even the profitable units? what do you want to buy??? The only asset you can buy are traders! In this case the buyer would have to sign new 2-3 years contracts with all the traders, that would be the only solution I can imagine… but who is going to sign this kind of contract?
Imo: no chance for vdm!
My bid is:
1€
Sold!
@ € 0,80 ct
@ 0,01 soon to come…
For sure, VdM is the worst company I have ever worked for.
agreed
can you explain why it was the worst ?
idiots in management, absolutely no direction in terms of business strategy, horrendous decision making, zero control on overheads, too many guys with big titles who contributed nothing…a real shame as there were alot of quality traders in the company but there was never enough value placed on their talents…its a trading company you have nothing if all the traders leave!!!
which dutch trading company are you describing right now? could be multiple…
great speculation and be in the height of buying since she is going to rise and then they are going to lose opportunity. The Price Target 0.70 cent.
I'm going to buy for 0.430
good luck
which dutch trading company is next…. my money is on alloptions
isn't that tall guy taking it over, Wegbert?
Maar ja, beter een kleine baas dan een grote knechtbert
was not a great trader. nickname slechtbert
He had a lot of pechbert
I saw him last year, his wife was preg-bert. After a takeover, his carreer will be on trackbert!
…famous Ääääääächbert!!!!!!! LOL
He was so cool, he "managed" to even write Mails from his Black-bert :-))
Ho ho ho, making fun of this good-willing topmanager is not terechtbert
The VDM stock was pretty kack-bert
Knack-bert
Is his sister still wearing a vlechtbert?
don't put all your eggs in 1 basket, legbert
is he sick, Brech-bert?
In trading options he's a real exbert
Trading on the Nasdaq it would be, Tech-bert
I heard from his girlfriend, at night when they are lying in bed and he is a bit naughty, he can be a real Sex-bert
Watch out! He won't be happy with all these jokes. I think he changes into a real Vechtbert!
LOL
now seriously what's going on with the top-two?
i mean the tall and the fashion victim…
ahh-bert and oh-no to be precise
1 has been sick technically for more than several months, lol
seems that the former cfo's all were sick for quite few months,
that was probably what took down the company,
high number of highly paid sick employees,
typical Dutch mentality
not to forget sick decisions while actually they were in office
Sick-bert?
All these joking posts just go to show how little regard the industry has for Van der Moolen, and gives an indication that they have been making bad decisions for years.
Does anyone have anything good and/or nice to say about VdM?
yeah, the good thing is that slechtbert and nono are out of business. They always did the opposite of what they promised.
and this is British mentality: capitulation
Backbones made from whipped cream!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/6034706/Swimmers-are-told-to-wear-burkinis.html
are they really out ? 😉
then its really o-shit-bert
nice bout VdM?
lots of seriously great guys – all out od company by now
Why are you laughing all the time. Is there something funny, or are you just happy.
yes it is funny from a certain perspective
especially when you have witnesed "we know better" approach…
and i'm happy – but it has nothing to do with abovementioned situation
no no, the two aren't out of the company. Seems they are still on the paylist. So either they take over Cur by themselves or they let someone else take over the show and receive a golden handshake. In both cases they are a winner, so the "we know better" approach did still work. Oh no, not so slechtbert!
"we know better" approach sounds more like IMC…
burning shit-loads of money on divi's in a'dam
Why is everybody posting as "anonymous". Looks like it is a bunch of former and current Cur collegues overhere.
True?
curvalue were always seen as the worst traders on the old floor. why is anyone surprised by this outcome…..
divi's? sounds like All Options…..
as if Curvalues' old floor-traders are still working there!
anonymous is so much nicer
you never know if you talking to ehhh-bert or somebody else
they take over Cur and finance it with what? who is going to credit them after they have shown how good their management skills were ?
yes yes
the old floor traders are now managers responsible
funny, isnt it?
Ja we post anonymous for sure so no one knows who we are.
Yours sincerely,
Richard den Drijver
Damn it!
Richard, you old chap!
how are things back home, counting all your money which is left?!
You've been hit by , you've been struck by a smooth criminal……lets all sing Richard are you Ok wont you tell us that your OK…..
Richbert how about a sharebuybert?
Rich he is, yeah 😉
first learn to share or you willl never buy back share
buying by company, selling privatly
This news story has had more comments than any other in the history of amsterdamtrader.com
many thanx to VDM therefore!
so what is next?
any lawsuits against driver or krohn
or just nothing
these kind of guys never get caught.
If the traders were paid 37 million in bonus they must have made over 100 milion in profits so you cant say the VDM traders were bad, long live the VDM traders.
So you see how bad the managers were to let the ship sink all because they were afraid of the one man board. And where were the supervisory board, all puppets and scared of King Richard.
It may take time but there is a law to the land and we shall root out this evil, sleep well all you criminals for soon you shall be scared to pick the soap up in the shower.
Come on the Dutch , lock and load , get some nukes
Pfff very funny. Everyone knows that Hans Kroon came back to rob the place, receiving a 400.000 euros bonus on the div-stripping deal… that did not went tru. Was paid 30.000 per month for not showing up (well, maybe 1 time per week if lucky) this Hans guy cost VDM close to 1.000.000 in 2008 in dodgy declarations and other stuff… what about helping your 'baby' in stead of suffocating it to get a quick buck out of it?
And Ricard d. Drijver is a crook too; he sold VDM Online Trader (bust, costing millions in losses) and other crappy Cur "gems" that appeared to be worth a big loss for VDM and a big buck for Ricard. Who helped him? His long time friend and advisor to both cur and VDM: Hans Crook.
My uncle is working there and I hope he will get a new job soon…. it's end of the story end this week or end next week… RIP VDM 1892 – 2009
George Bush, now I`d vote for you
06:25 and already at the office… to make sure that – today again – you won't earn any money!
no news for today?
ani insider willing to share the latest gossips?
all the insiders are currently on the beach… only right thing to do on a day like today
Insiders gossip? We employees learn more VdM news from this website and Google than we do from any managers.
And you do have a lot of managers
I heard VDM have blocked access to this blog from their offices in case any more of die truth be told.So i guess they have to wait until after hours trading.Who's bad !
which beach i want to join the beach party
what's this kind of yabba-dabba?! do you have a heatstroke, or are you just on drugs?
VDM forever!
yeah, VDM rules! KBC sells
righhht… drugs are bad, hmmkay?!
smoke less
or maybe something lighter…
amsterdamtrader.com banned in VdM office?
thats hilarious
Hi Egg, I think it will be better for you not to come Backbert! 2 Meters of incompetence is better off at Texel.
Tex-bert don't need the boat to go back. He can just lay straight over het marsdiep and he's back in Den Helder. By the way Beeeeeeeh-bert
Is sex-bert in Cocksdorp?
Is the manager escaping to Texel? What's nextbert?
So sexbert is in the Cocksdorp in the Watjessea?
WEEKENDJEWEGBERT
http://msv.izieweb.nl/php/htmlplaat.php?fileid=1905 he used to be a good footballplayer. Left under
he was a very good cornerbackbert
will egbert go to prison… if so, will they have to make his prison cell longer….
http://www.australianit.news.co.au/story/0,24897,25890671-15317,00.html
http://www.australianit.news.com.au/story/0,24897,25890671-15317,00.html
woow!!! seems that egbert was a popular manager in VDM !!!
i can not believe that there is not any comment about VW!!!!!
vow sucks… saen is already gone on it
seem that he has a fanclub now
everybody supporting him on his way to a cell
He has to watch out in the Cockring. I heard he likes bareback-bert.
bareback-bert on bareback-ernie 😉
new topic please cause I keep on scrolling to all the new posts above 200!
VDM Anual Report 2008: In June 2008, the Group entered into a loan agreement with Avalon Media Group establishing the terms of a convertible subordinated loan of €6.0 million. Hans Kroon is voorzitter van de Raad vanBestuur van Van der Moolen Effecten en voormalig commissaris van Cure Value en voorzitter van de Raad van Commissarissen van Avalon Media Group en Trustus Capital Management.
you are sh#@ing me… VDM invested in a MUSIC store business where Hans Kroon was ON THE BOARD of??? why the f#$ck is VDM investing in music stores???….THIS STINKS !!!!
HIM AND DEN DRIVER BELONG IN JAIL
READ THE REST OF THE VDM REPORT ASSHOLE…VDM TOOK A HIT OF 25% ON THIS AVALON LOAN……… 6 MLN X 25% = € 1,500,000 …
NICE WAY TO GET SOME CASH OUT OF VDM>>>
pppffff…big deal RDD lives safe and nicely in the Swiss Alps ….joooodalleeeehhiiitiiieeeee.. €€€€€$$$$$$$